Chart Manipulations

[Big Red Machine]

I know this has been discussed in other threads, so I decided to open a new thread regarding this one subject, especially considering the payola involved. What chart manipulations do you think occurred in the Casey's AT40 era?

The most obvious, as many know, was in 74 when John Lennon stayed at #40 so that all 4 Beatles were in the Top 40 at the same time. Especially since songs were dropping like flies back in 1974. Any others?

Wasn't "The Closer I Get to You" originally #1 and then scratched that same week? Was that manipulation or an honest error? Maybe the only one that knows this answer is the Billboard chart director at the time, but it's fun to speculate as AT40 fans. What do you think?

What record companies seemed to be the ones that paid out, if any had a pattern to it?

[kahunaburger61]

Oct 17, 2011 0:00:28 GMT -5 Big Red Machine said:

I know this has been discussed in other threads, so I decided to open a new thread regarding this one subject, especially considering the payola involved. What chart manipulations do you think occurred in the Casey's AT40 era?

The most obvious, as many know, was in 74 when John Lennon stayed at #40 so that all 4 Beatles were in the Top 40 at the same time. Especially since songs were dropping like flies back in 1974. Any others?

Wasn't "The Closer I Get to You" originally #1 and then scratched that same week? Was that manipulation or an honest error? Maybe the only one that knows this answer is the Billboard chart director at the time, but it's fun to speculate as AT40 fans. What do you think?

What record companies seemed to be the ones that paid out, if any had a pattern to it?

I read a book about Casablanca Records "And Party Everyday:The Inside Story of Casablanca Records" by Larry Harris where he states he paid off the chart director of Billboard in '78 to put the "Thank God It's Friday" soundtrack @ #1 in the LP charts. He said he was double crossed and "Saturday Night Fever" soundtrack was put @ #1 for 24th week instead! "TGIF" only reached #10 on LP chart so can't validate reliability of story!!!

[dukelightning]

That one about TGIF looks too blatant to happen. But the John Lennon thing certainly sounds like it unless the Billboard chart director did it on his own. Maybe he was a big Beatles fan or something. And the one example I would give of payola is RSO Records or Robert Stigwood paying off Billboard to get the Bee Gees 3 hits from their Spirits Having Flown Lp to #1. All 3 songs they knocked out of the #1 spot turned around and knocked the Bee Gees out. Still can't see how Donna Summer's "Hot Stuff" could relinquish the #1 spot for a week to the Bee Gees. This is how "Le Freak" became the first and only song in the pre-Soundscan era to hit the top 3 different times. I don't buy it.

[Hervard]

Oct 17, 2011 0:00:28 GMT -5 Big Red Machine said:

Wasn't "The Closer I Get to You" originally #1 and then scratched that same week? Was that manipulation or an honest error? Maybe the only one that knows this answer is the Billboard chart director at the time, but it's fun to speculate as AT40 fans. What do you think?

Never heard about that one, but I remember a story about "Baker Street" being number one for a few hours, then they put "Shadow Dancing" at #1 instead, where it had been for the past few weeks. Not sure which week that almost happened, as "Baker Street" was number two for the last six weeks of the seven-week run of "Shadow Dancing".

The thing about "The Closer I Get To You" does sound feasible, as it peaked at #2 the same week that "If I Can't Have You" hit #1. They might have decided to give the top spot to the latter since it was from Saturday Night Fever.

[atruefan]

I've mentioned this in another post, but any Billboard chart from (at the latest) 1975 - April of 1983 was suspect because of Billboard's chart director.

I haven't read Harris's book so I can't comment on his perspective; but Fredric Dannen put out a great book in 1990 called "Hit Men." It dealt mostly with the "pay to play" philosophy of radio stations and record companies, but there's also information on chart manipulation.

Dannen wrote about an incident involving Al Coury, who was an executive from RSO records. Coury was determined to get "If I Can't Have You" to number one. So, he flew out to a convention Billboard was putting on in Venice with that goal in mind. Coury met with Bill Wardlow, chart director for Billboard. Coury wined and dined him and rented a yacht for them to sail on. When Coury's aide questioned why they were spending so much time on this one guy, Coury told him who Wardlow was and that he was doing this to ensure "If I Can't Have You" went to #1. Dannen end's the paragragh with "Next week, Yvonne Elliman was number one." Certainly that could be an explanation for why "The Closer I Get To You" peaked at #2.

As to the "Baker Street" "Shadow Dancing" incident. I've never seen anything in print on this, but on the Cashbox website there's a segment on Gerry Rafferty.
www.cashboxmagazine.com/news525.html

The story says that "Baker Street" actually was #1 on the chart Billboard sent them, but 15 minutes later they got an updated chart with "Shadow Dancing" back at #1. AT40 staffers are mentioned in the story; but again, I've never seen any printed evidence of this story. Knowing Wardlow's modus operandi, however, it wouldn't surprise me.

I'm not saying that Wardlow was solely responsible for all the bizarre chart jumps and oddities that occurred during his tenure; I'm just suggesting a possible explanation for them.

[dukelightning]

Where there's smoke, there is fire. Look at the common denominator in all the posts about this in 1978 and 79. All the beneficiaries of #1 songs are on the RSO label. "If I Can't Have You", "Shadow Dancing" and the 3 Bee Gees songs. I think what atruefan wrote is entirely plausible. BTW, has anyone ever questioned why AT40 stated that the Bee Gees were the #1 act of the 70s when in the top acts of the decade special aired in 1978, Casey said Elton had a 1000 and something point lead plus all the Joel Whitburn books list either Elton or Paul McCartney as the top act of the decade? Granted the Bee Gees made up some ground in 79 (even if their hits were not legitimate #1s), but enough to overtake Elton? If you take away those 3 #1s, the Bee Gees end up with 6 for the decade, the same as Elton and Paul.

[Big Red Machine]

Wow, thanks atrue fan, dukedeb, kahunaburger, and hervard!!!! That's the type of info that I was interested in reading. Again, many thanks.

Too bad this was mafia like back in the day, and not know truly who benefited and who got screwed. I wonder if Olivia and the record company paid the chart director money for "Physical" , keeping Foreigner out.

[JMW]

Oct 17, 2011 10:24:24 GMT -5 Big Red Machine said:

I wonder if Olivia and the record company paid the chart director money for "Physical" , keeping Foreigner out.

I was just going to ask the same thing. As much as I like "Physical" (as cheesy as the song may be), I don't get how it was a "#1 for ten weeks" type of song. Was it really that big of a seller?

[Mike]

Oct 17, 2011 10:48:01 GMT -5 JMW said:

Oct 17, 2011 10:24:24 GMT -5 Big Red Machine said:

I wonder if Olivia and the record company paid the chart director money for "Physical" , keeping Foreigner out.

I was just going to ask the same thing. As much as I like "Physical" (as cheesy as the song may be), I don't get how it was a "#1 for ten weeks" type of song. Was it really that big of a seller?

It was certified Platinum, which was 2 million back then.

[80sfreak]

Oct 17, 2011 11:14:12 GMT -5 Mike said:

Oct 17, 2011 10:48:01 GMT -5 JMW said:

I was just going to ask the same thing. As much as I like "Physical" (as cheesy as the song may be), I don't get how it was a "#1 for ten weeks" type of song. Was it really that big of a seller?

It was certified Platinum, which was 2 million back then.

It was an awful song. can't believe it hit # 1 let alone stay there for 2 months.

[jaxxalude]

Not the Hot 100. But there's always the infamous story about how Capitol tried to buy Grand Funk Railroad's We're an American Band into #1 on the album chart by hiding the copies in their warehouse. Eventually they must have been discovered, as the album failed the penthouse by one notch.

[pizzzzza]

I think this was already mentioned in another thread somewhere on here, but how about Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey by Paul McCartney?

I really liked that song when it was out, and remember hearing it all the time on the radio.

But it's chart history was very strange 21-12-1-5-5....

[vince]

You are all pointing out very possible examples were BB may have manipulated the weekly chart. I have suspicions of manipulation too. I found the following examples of possible manipulation or maybe just bad math in BB’s Year End Top 10’s from 1975, 1977, 1978, 1980, 1982, 1984 and 1985. Some songs rankings did not matched to their point total. While errors in the lower positions may have been mathematical errors, the higher positions (Top 10) may have been through record company influence as they get the prestige of having the years biggest hit. It is possible to get a song’s year end point totals during the pre Soundscan era because the year end chart is based the weekly chart. If you want to see how these were ranked check out my post from a few years back.

The four digit number preceding each song is point total based on the methodology used that year. The methodology changed from year to year.

1975 – The obvious “Some kind Of Wonderful” at #6

2031 *1 LOVE WILL KEEP US TOGETHER The Captain and Tennille (A&M)
1974 *2 RHINESTONE COWBOY Glen Campbell (Capitol)
1854 *3 PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM The Elton John Band (MCA)
1591 *4 BEFORE THE NEXT TEARDROP FALLS Freddy Fender (ABC/Dot)
1581 *5 MY EYES ADORED YOU Frankie Valli (Private Stock)
1052 6 SOME KIND OF WONDERFUL Grand Funk (Capitol)
1560 *7 SHINING STAR Earth, Wind, and Fire (Columbia)
1552 *8 FAME David Bowie (RCA)
1519 *9 LAUGHTER IN THE RAIN Neil Sedaka (MCA)
1481 *10 ONE OF THE THESE NIGHTS The Eagles (Asylum)


1977 – This was the closet I could get to match BB for this year. Notice the point totals on #1 and #2.

2305 *1 TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT (Gonna Be Alright) Rod Stewart (Warner Brothers)
2612 *2 I JUST WANT TO BE YOUR EVERYTHING Andy Gibb (RSO)
2232 *3 BEST OF MY LOVE The Emotions (Columbia)
2034 *4 LOVE THEME FROM "A STAR IS BORN" (Evergreen) Barbra Streisand (Columbia)
1845 5 ANGEL IN YOUR ARMS Hot (Big Tree)
1825 6 I LIKE DREAMIN' Kenny Nolan (20th Century)
1756 *7 DON'T LEAVE ME THIS WAY Thelma Houston (Tamla)
1738 8 (Your Love Has Lifted Me) HIGHER AND HIGHER Rita Coolidge (A&M)
1738 *9 UNDERCOVER ANGEL Alan O'Day (Pacific)
1680 *10 TORN BETWEEN TWO LOVERS Mary MacGregor (Ariola America)


1978 – Once again #1 and #2 were flipped, but it was the same family and label.

5360 *1 SHADOW DANCING Andy Gibb (RSO)
6090 *2 NIGHT FEVER The Bee Gees (RSO)
4761 *3 YOU LIGHT UP MY LIFE Debby Boone (Warner/Curb)
3430 *4 STAYIN' ALIVE The Bee Gees (RSO)
2761 *5 KISS YOU ALL OVER Exile (Warner/Curb)
2648 *6 HOW DEEP IS YOUR LOVE The Bee Gees (RSO)
2580 *7 BABY COME BACK Player (RSO)
2536 *8 LOVE IS THICKER THAN WATER Andy Gibb (RSO)
2428 *9 BOOGIE OOGIE OOGIE A Taste Of Honey (Capitol)
2120 *10 THREE TIMES A LADY The Commodores (Motown)



1980 – “Magic” ranked higher than it should based on points.

2532 *1 CALL ME Blondie
2264 *2 ANOTHER BRICK IN THE WALL (Part 2) Pink Floyd
1944 *3 MAGIC Olivia Newton-John
2130 *4 ROCK WITH YOU Michael Jackson
2128 *5 DO THAT TO ME ONE MORE TIME The Captain and Tennille
2092 *6 CRAZY LITTLE THING CALLED LOVE Queen
1931 *7 COMING UP (Live At Glasgow) Paul McCartney and Wings
1929 *8 FUNKYTOWN Lipps Inc.
1873 *9 IT'S STILL ROCK & ROLL TO ME Billy Joel
1694 10 THE ROSE Bette Midler


1982 - “Eye Of The Tiger” ranked higher than it should based on points from methodology used.

6299 *1 PHYSICAL Olivia Newton-John (MCA)
3997 *2 EYE OF THE TIGER Survivor (Scotti Brothers)
4328 *3 I LOVE ROCK 'N' ROLL Joan Jett and the Blackhearts (Boardwalk)
4319 *4 EBONY AND IVORY Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder (Columbia)
3966 *5 CENTERFOLD The J. Geils Band (EMI-America)
2630 *6 DON'T YOU WANT ME The Human League (A&M/Virgin)
2281 *7 JACK AND DIANE John Cougar (Mellencamp) (Riva)
2157 8 HURTS SO GOOD John Cougar (Mellencamp) (Riva)
2141 *9 ABRACADABRA The Steve Miller Band (Capitol)
2093 *10 HARD TO SAY I'M SORRY Chicago (Full Moon) (#1, Sept)


1984 – Did Warner pay for the placement of the song at #1?

2404 *1 WHEN DOVES CRY Prince and the Revolution (Warner Brothers)
2519 *2 WHAT'S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT Tina Turner (Capitol)
2479 *3 SAY, SAY, SAY Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson
2334 *4 FOOTLOOSE Kenny Loggins (Columbia)
2328 *5 AGAINST ALL ODDS (Take a Look at Me Now) Phil Collins (Atlantic)
2302 *6 JUMP Van Halen (Warner Brothers)
2277 *7 HELLO Lionel Richie
2258 *8 OWNER OF A LONELY HEART Yes (Atco)
2136 *9 GHOSTBUSTERS Ray Parker Jr. (Arista)
2120 *10 KARMA CHAMELEON Culture Club (Virgin)


1985 - #4 & #5 should be flipped based on the methodology used. It was also strange how the counted the week after the frozen week twice to give an advantage to “Careless Whisper”

2158 *1 CARELESS WHISPER Wham! Featuring George Michael (Columbia)
2151 *2 LIKE A VIRGIN Madonna (Sire)
2097 *3 WAKE ME UP BEFORE YOU GO-GO Wham! (Columbia)
2061 *4 I WANT TO KNOW WHAT LOVE IS Foreigner (Atlantic)
2062 5 I FEEL FOR YOU Chaka Khan (Warner Brothers)
2041 *6 OUT OF TOUCH Daryl Hall and John Oates (RCA)
2019 *7 EVERYBODY WANTS TO RULE THE WORLD Tears For Fears (Mercury)
1992 *8 MONEY FOR NOTHING Dire Straits (Warner Brothers)
1969 *9 CRAZY FOR YOU Madonna (Sire)
1959 *10 TAKE ON ME A-Ha (Warner Brothers)

[reachinforthestars]

Oct 17, 2011 13:33:20 GMT -5 pizzzzza said:

I think this was already mentioned in another thread somewhere on here, but how about Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey by Paul McCartney?

I really liked that song when it was out, and remember hearing it all the time on the radio.

But it's chart history was very strange 21-12-1-5-5....

The detailed explanation of what happened with this song is explained in the Chart Critiques thread.

During the time I closely followed music and the Billboard charts (70's and early 80's), there were three times I felt very uncomfortable:

John Lennon "Whatever Gets You Through The Night" (also known as, LETS CREATE A COOL BEATLES STORY FOR CASEY!)

Bee Gees "Love You Inside Out" (also known as, KEEP THE #1 STREAK ALIVE!)

#1 songs on the country charts in the 80's (also known as, #1 SONGS FOR EVERYONE!)

[pizzzzza]

Oct 17, 2011 19:56:33 GMT -5 vince said:

You are all pointing out very possible examples were BB may have manipulated the weekly chart. I have suspicions of manipulation too. I found the following examples of possible manipulation or maybe just bad math in BB’s Year End Top 10’s from 1975, 1977, 1978, 1980, 1982, 1984 and 1985. Some songs rankings did not matched to their point total. While errors in the lower positions may have been mathematical errors, the higher positions (Top 10) may have been through record company influence as they get the prestige of having the years biggest hit. It is possible to get a song’s year end point totals during the pre Soundscan era because the year end chart is based the weekly chart. If you want to see how these were ranked check out my post from a few years back.

The four digit number preceding each song is point total based on the methodology used that year. The methodology changed from year to year.

1975 – The obvious “Some kind Of Wonderful” at #6

2031 *1 LOVE WILL KEEP US TOGETHER The Captain and Tennille (A&M)
1974 *2 RHINESTONE COWBOY Glen Campbell (Capitol)
1854 *3 PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM The Elton John Band (MCA)
1591 *4 BEFORE THE NEXT TEARDROP FALLS Freddy Fender (ABC/Dot)
1581 *5 MY EYES ADORED YOU Frankie Valli (Private Stock)
1052 6 SOME KIND OF WONDERFUL Grand Funk (Capitol)
1560 *7 SHINING STAR Earth, Wind, and Fire (Columbia)
1552 *8 FAME David Bowie (RCA)
1519 *9 LAUGHTER IN THE RAIN Neil Sedaka (MCA)
1481 *10 ONE OF THE THESE NIGHTS The Eagles (Asylum)


1977 – This was the closet I could get to match BB for this year. Notice the point totals on #1 and #2.

2305 *1 TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT (Gonna Be Alright) Rod Stewart (Warner Brothers)
2612 *2 I JUST WANT TO BE YOUR EVERYTHING Andy Gibb (RSO)
2232 *3 BEST OF MY LOVE The Emotions (Columbia)
2034 *4 LOVE THEME FROM "A STAR IS BORN" (Evergreen) Barbra Streisand (Columbia)
1845 5 ANGEL IN YOUR ARMS Hot (Big Tree)
1825 6 I LIKE DREAMIN' Kenny Nolan (20th Century)
1756 *7 DON'T LEAVE ME THIS WAY Thelma Houston (Tamla)
1738 8 (Your Love Has Lifted Me) HIGHER AND HIGHER Rita Coolidge (A&M)
1738 *9 UNDERCOVER ANGEL Alan O'Day (Pacific)
1680 *10 TORN BETWEEN TWO LOVERS Mary MacGregor (Ariola America)


1978 – Once again #1 and #2 were flipped, but it was the same family and label.

5360 *1 SHADOW DANCING Andy Gibb (RSO)
6090 *2 NIGHT FEVER The Bee Gees (RSO)
4761 *3 YOU LIGHT UP MY LIFE Debby Boone (Warner/Curb)
3430 *4 STAYIN' ALIVE The Bee Gees (RSO)
2761 *5 KISS YOU ALL OVER Exile (Warner/Curb)
2648 *6 HOW DEEP IS YOUR LOVE The Bee Gees (RSO)
2580 *7 BABY COME BACK Player (RSO)
2536 *8 LOVE IS THICKER THAN WATER Andy Gibb (RSO)
2428 *9 BOOGIE OOGIE OOGIE A Taste Of Honey (Capitol)
2120 *10 THREE TIMES A LADY The Commodores (Motown)



1980 – “Magic” ranked higher than it should based on points.

2532 *1 CALL ME Blondie
2264 *2 ANOTHER BRICK IN THE WALL (Part 2) Pink Floyd
1944 *3 MAGIC Olivia Newton-John
2130 *4 ROCK WITH YOU Michael Jackson
2128 *5 DO THAT TO ME ONE MORE TIME The Captain and Tennille
2092 *6 CRAZY LITTLE THING CALLED LOVE Queen
1931 *7 COMING UP (Live At Glasgow) Paul McCartney and Wings
1929 *8 FUNKYTOWN Lipps Inc.
1873 *9 IT'S STILL ROCK & ROLL TO ME Billy Joel
1694 10 THE ROSE Bette Midler


1982 - “Eye Of The Tiger” ranked higher than it should based on points from methodology used.

6299 *1 PHYSICAL Olivia Newton-John (MCA)
3997 *2 EYE OF THE TIGER Survivor (Scotti Brothers)
4328 *3 I LOVE ROCK 'N' ROLL Joan Jett and the Blackhearts (Boardwalk)
4319 *4 EBONY AND IVORY Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder (Columbia)
3966 *5 CENTERFOLD The J. Geils Band (EMI-America)
2630 *6 DON'T YOU WANT ME The Human League (A&M/Virgin)
2281 *7 JACK AND DIANE John Cougar (Mellencamp) (Riva)
2157 8 HURTS SO GOOD John Cougar (Mellencamp) (Riva)
2141 *9 ABRACADABRA The Steve Miller Band (Capitol)
2093 *10 HARD TO SAY I'M SORRY Chicago (Full Moon) (#1, Sept)


1984 – Did Warner pay for the placement of the song at #1?

2404 *1 WHEN DOVES CRY Prince and the Revolution (Warner Brothers)
2519 *2 WHAT'S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT Tina Turner (Capitol)
2479 *3 SAY, SAY, SAY Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson
2334 *4 FOOTLOOSE Kenny Loggins (Columbia)
2328 *5 AGAINST ALL ODDS (Take a Look at Me Now) Phil Collins (Atlantic)
2302 *6 JUMP Van Halen (Warner Brothers)
2277 *7 HELLO Lionel Richie
2258 *8 OWNER OF A LONELY HEART Yes (Atco)
2136 *9 GHOSTBUSTERS Ray Parker Jr. (Arista)
2120 *10 KARMA CHAMELEON Culture Club (Virgin)


1985 - #4 & #5 should be flipped based on the methodology used. It was also strange how the counted the week after the frozen week twice to give an advantage to “Careless Whisper”

2158 *1 CARELESS WHISPER Wham! Featuring George Michael (Columbia)
2151 *2 LIKE A VIRGIN Madonna (Sire)
2097 *3 WAKE ME UP BEFORE YOU GO-GO Wham! (Columbia)
2061 *4 I WANT TO KNOW WHAT LOVE IS Foreigner (Atlantic)
2062 5 I FEEL FOR YOU Chaka Khan (Warner Brothers)
2041 *6 OUT OF TOUCH Daryl Hall and John Oates (RCA)
2019 *7 EVERYBODY WANTS TO RULE THE WORLD Tears For Fears (Mercury)
1992 *8 MONEY FOR NOTHING Dire Straits (Warner Brothers)
1969 *9 CRAZY FOR YOU Madonna (Sire)
1959 *10 TAKE ON ME A-Ha (Warner Brothers)

Very interesting....not to mention a LOT of work!