Chart Manipulations

[dukelightning]

Thanks Pete. I see that schedule and see the last weekly show was recorded on Dec. 11. Both that and the year end show were shipped on Dec. 13. So my scenario really doesn't work about "You Light Up My Life". The only way to get that at the #1 position for the year is in 1978 whereby they based points on the entire chart run. Thanks also to CRZ who seems to have pointed out that said policy did not start until 1985.

vince, did you do the calculations for the top 50 of the 70s? There were a few questions I had about that such as why the Bee Gees 3 hits from Sat. Night Fever were in the reverse order of how they ranked in the top 100 of 1978. I also wondered why the songs that were 2,3,4 and 5 in the top 40 of 1973 did not make the top 50 of the 70s yet the songs at 6,7,9 and 11 did.

[jaxxalude]

I'm just posting this because I think it somehow relates to what's being dicussed here. The link you're about to see is an interview that's almost ten years old - it was published in 2002, in a website specialized in AOR/melodic rock/etc.; yet I think the crux of it remains as pertinent as ever. Still, I will highlight the passage that most directly has to to with the topic. Here goes:

What is the most outright corrupt transaction you have witnessed?
Not a transaction per se, but a major label head ordered a manufacturing hold on a #1 hit single for one artist, which had held his then partner's single at #2. The result was that song becoming an artificial #1 hit because the original #1 track slipped in sales and a little down the charts.

The link for the complete interview: www.melodicrock.com/interviews/theinsiderinterview.html

[vince]

Oct 19, 2011 16:44:09 GMT -5 dukelightning said:

Thanks Pete. I see that schedule and see the last weekly show was recorded on Dec. 11. Both that and the year end show were shipped on Dec. 13. So my scenario really doesn't work about "You Light Up My Life". The only way to get that at the #1 position for the year is in 1978 whereby they based points on the entire chart run. Thanks also to CRZ who seems to have pointed out that said policy did not start until 1985.

vince, did you do the calculations for the top 50 of the 70s? There were a few questions I had about that such as why the Bee Gees 3 hits from Sat. Night Fever were in the reverse order of how they ranked in the top 100 of 1978. I also wondered why the songs that were 2,3,4 and 5 in the top 40 of 1973 did not make the top 50 of the 70s yet the songs at 6,7,9 and 11 did.

Dukedeb,

I was not able to figure out any mathematical way AT40 could have come up with their ranking for the Top 50 of the 70's. They may have used a correction factor to give more weight to songs in years with smaller hits a better chance. There are still a lot of discrepancies such as “One Bad Apple” ranking higher than “I’ll Be There” when they were hits about the same time and I’ll Be There was on the chart longer. There was also “I Just Want To Be Your Everything” ranking way below “Best Of My Love”, which could be explained by #1 bonus points, but then why did “Night Fever” rank below “Shadow Dancing”, and “Stayin’ Alive” and “How Deep Is Your Love” rank higher. It was also very unusual the “Killing Me Softly” that was #1 5 weeks didn’t even make the top 50.

I did compile my own Top 100 of the 70's based on the Hot 100 if you want to see how the songs stacked up without a correction factor. The frozen weeks were not counted and non-#1's were included.

7463 1 YOU LIGHT UP MY LIFE Debby Boone (1977)
5290 2 NIGHT FEVER The Bee Gees (1978)
4660 3 SHADOW DANCING Andy Gibb (1978)
4484 4 TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT (Gonna Be Alright) Rod Stewart (1976)
3765 5 MY SHARONA The Knack (1979)
3630 6 THE FIRST TIME EVER I SAW YOUR FACE Raberta Flack (1972)
3602 7 ALONE AGAIN (Naturally) Gilbert O'Sullivan (1972)
3600 8 JOY TO THE WORLD Three Dog Night (1971)
3388 9 BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER Simon & Garfunkel (1970)
3377 10 LE FREAK Chic (1978)
3358 11 I JUST WANT TO BE YOUR EVERYTHING Andy Gibb (1977)
3272 12 BEST OF MY LOVE The Emotions (1977)
3045 13 BAD GIRLS Donna Summer (1979)
3030 14 STAYIN' ALIVE The Bee Gees (1978)
3013 15 SILLY LOVE SONGS Wings (1976)
2986 16 MAGGIE MAY Rod Stewart (1971)
2970 17 I'LL BE THERE The Jackson Five (1970)
2950 18 IT'S TOO LATE Carol King (1971)
2848 19 KILLING ME SOFTLY Raberta Flack (1973)
2829 20 HOW DEEP IS YOUR LOVE The Bee Gees (1977)
2797 21 KISS YOU ALL OVER Exile (1978)
2794 22 RAIN DROPS KEEP FALLIN' ON MY HEAD B.J. Thomas (1970)
2746 23 TIE A YELLOW RIBBON AROUND THE OLE OAK TREE Dawn (1973)
2714 24 ONE BAD APPLE The Osmonds (1971)
2631 25 LOVE WILL KEEP US TOGETHER The Captain & Tennille (1975)
2624 26 AMERICAN PIE Don McLean (1972)
2610 27 DA YA THINK I'M SEXY? Rod Stewart (1979)
2557 28 REUNITED Peaches & Herb (1979)
2488 29 I CAN SEE CLEARLY NOW Johnny Nash (1972)
2465 30 (They Long To Be) CLOSE TO YOU The Carpenters (1970)
2457 31 DON'T GO BREAKIN' MY HEART Elton John & Kiki Dee (1976)
2448 32 I GO CRAZY Paul Davis (1978)
2442 33 BABY COME BACK Player (1978)
2431 34 MY LOVE Wings (1973)
2427 35 WITHOUT YOU Nilsson (1972)
2409 36 LOVE THEME FROM "A STAR IS BORN" (Evergreen) Barbra Streisand (1977)
2386 37 I WILL SURVIVE Gloria Gaynor (1979)
2364 38 DISCO LADY Johnnie Taylor (1976)
2361 39 PLAY THAT FUNKY MUSIC Wild Cherry (1976)
2336 40 (Love Is) THICKER THAN WATER Andy Gibb (1978)
2332 41 BOOGIE OOGIE OOGIE A Taste Of Honey (1978)
2315 42 HOT STUFF Donna Summer (1978)
2299 43 THE WAY WE WERE Barbra Streisand (1974)
2298 44 HOW CAN YOU MEND A BROKEN HEART The Bee Gees (1971)
2261 45 DECEMBER 1963 (Oh, What A Night) The Four Seasons
2252 46 MY SWEET LORD George Harrison (1970)
2211 47 I THINK I LOVE YOU The Partridge Family (1970)
2169 48 A FIFTH OF BEETHOVEN Walter Murphy & the Big Apple Band (1976)
2142 49 WHY ME Kris Kristofferson (1973)
2114 50 KNOCK THREE TIMES Dawn (1971)
2096 51 SEASONS IN THE SUN Terry Jacks (1974)
2092 52 THE CANDY MAN Sammy Davis Jr. (1972)
2074 53 RHINESTONE COWBOY Glen Campbell (1975)
2066 54 HOT CHILD IN THE CITY Nick Gilder (1978)
2027 55 KISS AND SAY GOODBYE The Manhattans (1976)
2016 56 CROCODIAL ROCK Elton John (1973)
2016 57 BRAND NEW KEY Melanie (1971)
2015 58 MAC ARTHUR PARK Donna Summer (1978)
2001 59 YOU'RE SO VAIN Carly Simon (1973)
1995 60 SAD EYES Robert John (1979)
1990 61 LEAN ON ME Bill Withers (1972)
1971 62 LOVE MACHINE PT. 1 The Miracles (1976)
1968 63 BABY, DON'T GET HOOKED ON ME Mac Davis (1972)
1954 64 PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM Elton John (1975)
1952 65 BAD, BAD LEROY BROWN (1973)
1952 66 FEELING Morris Albert (1975)
1950 67 THE MOST BEAUTIFUL GIRL Charlie Rich (1973)
1946 68 LET'S GET IT ON Marvin Gaye (1973)
1940 69 I LOVE THE NIGHTLIFE (Disco `Round) Alicia Bridges (1978)
1933 70 ME AND MRS. JONES Billy Paul (1972)
1920 71 THREE TIMES A LADY The Commodores (1978)
1908 72 AMERICAN WOMAN The Guess Who (1970)
1899 73 THE STREAK Ray Stevens (1974)
1898 74 RISE Herb Alpert (1979)
1891 75 WAR Edwin Starr (1970)
1891 76 SIR DUKE Stevie Wonder (1977)
1889 77 GREASE Frankie Valli (1978)
1886 78 50 WAYS TO LEAVE YOUR LOVER Paul Simon (1976)
1880 79 Y.M.C.A. The Village People (1979)
1874 80 FLY, ROBIN, FLY Silver Convention (1975)
1872 81 LOVE IS ALIVE Gary Wright (1976)
1871 82 GO AWAY LITTLE GIRL Donny Osmond (1971)
1863 83 IF YOU LEAVE ME NOW Chicago (1976)
1858 84 YOU'RE THE ONE THAT I WANT Olivia Newton John & John Travolta (1978)
1855 85 TORN BETWEEN TWO LOVERS Mary MacGreggor (1977)
1854 86 MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA Gladys Knight & the Pips (1973)
1852 87 FAMILY AFFAIR Sly & the Family Stone (1971)
1849 88 KEEP ON TRUCKIN' Eddie Kendricks (1973)
1848 89 YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A STAR (To Be In My Show) Marilyn McCoo & Billy Davis Jr. (1977)
1845 90 ANGEL IN YOUR ARMS Hot (1977)
1843 91 TOP OF THE WORLD The Carpenters (1973)
1841 92 AIN'T NO MOUNTAIN HIGH ENOUGH Diana Ross (1970)
1825 93 I LIKE DREAMIN' Kenny Nolan (1977)
1821 94 YOU NEEDED ME Anne Murry (1978)
1809 95 WILL IT GO ROUND IN CIRCLES Billy Preston (1973)
1807 96 ISLAND GIRL Elton John (1975)
1806 97 DON'T LEAVE ME THIS WAY Thelma Houston (1977)
1804 98 A HORSE WITH NO NAME America (1972)
1791 99 RING MY BELL Anita Ward (1979)
1790 100 EMOTION Samantha Sang (1978)

Regarding the examples I posted earlier with 1978's top 10, I used BB’s survey period that was 11/5/77 to 10/28/78. “You Light Up My Life”, “How Deep Is Your Love” and “Kiss You All Over” had a major part of their run runs cut off. YLUPL would have been the #1 of 1978 if its entire chart run was counted.

[dukelightning]

vince, great stuff as usual. Sounds like you went round and round trying to figure out AT40 tabulation method for that. BTW, I would have included the frozen weeks. I am of the opinion that songs should not be penalized for when they were released be it the frozen week or the beginning or end of the survey year. That's why I like Fred Bronson's HOTTEST HOT 100 HITS which has the top 100s of the year and decade using the calendar year as the survey year. Yes, doing these after the fact makes it a lot easier! But he gives too much weight to #1 songs so your list has to be more accurate. Interesting that the 2 longevity kings of the decade ended up being the highest non-#1 songs...I Go Crazy and Why Me.

One reason AT40 may have omitted "Killing Me Softly" is due to time constraints. Otherwise they simply could have overlooked it as they did when doing the top new artists of the 80s in 1988 and overlooked Sheena Easton. These things can happen! I also think they only wanted #1 songs to be included either by giving a lot of bonus points to them or limiting their tabulations to just #1 songs. Probably the latter because even Bronson who gives 50 bonus points for every week at #1 (making the difference between #1 and #2 at 51 points whereas the difference between #2 and #3 is just one point...ridiculous IMO), has "I Like Dreamin" at 47 and "I Love the Night Life" at 48 for non-#1 songs. BTW, the top 5 is as follows.............
5 Shadow Dancing
4 Le Freak
3 I Just Want to be Your Everything
2 How Deep is Your Love
1 You Light Up My Life

Surprised by "How Deep is Your Love"? All late 70s in that top 5.

[Hervard]

AT40's Top 50 of the 1970s was figured like so: "You Light Up My Life" was by far the #1 song of the decade based on its points, as well as weeks at #1, so it was placed there. Then, songs with multiple weeks at #1 were written on slips, placed in a hat, and 49 of them were drawn at random and placed on the chart in the order in which they were pulled out. This is a proven fact. Source

[shadoeargentina]

I mentioned this in another post. On VH1's 100 One Hit Wonders , Billy Vera talking about his song "At this moment" refers to the second run of the song owed ​​much to "Family Ties" but also mentions that came to N ª 1 without having to pay anyone, or the radio or MTV. That suggests that it was customary in those years pay to have high rotation in the media (and still happens today )
In the 70`s and 80's Billboard charts was made in their traditional way, with phone calls and calling only part of the marketplaces
Maybe this will produce this kind of charts, with songs , artists and positions manipulated

[albe]

Oct 19, 2011 19:09:24 GMT -5 jaxxalude said:

I'm just posting this because I think it somehow relates to what's being dicussed here. The link you're about to see is an interview that's almost ten years old - it was published in 2002, in a website specialized in AOR/melodic rock/etc.; yet I think the crux of it remains as pertinent as ever. Still, I will highlight the passage that most directly has to to with the topic. Here goes:

What is the most outright corrupt transaction you have witnessed?
Not a transaction per se, but a major label head ordered a manufacturing hold on a #1 hit single for one artist, which had held his then partner's single at #2. The result was that song becoming an artificial #1 hit because the original #1 track slipped in sales and a little down the charts.

The link for the complete interview: www.melodicrock.com/interviews/theinsiderinterview.html

This interview is a real eye opener

[foosesb]

I always got the impression that AT40 chose to use their own survery because the Billboard chart produced so many outliers that year. The most egregious example is the song that would have launched the countdown, "Devil's Gun" by C.J. and Company. It peaked at #36 spent a total of TWO weeks in the Top 40, one week of which Casey was out on vacation (it did spend 29 weeks on the Hot 100). That, plus two other songs, Ariel and Whispering, peaked at #26 and #27 respectively, also made the Billboard year-end survey. I'm thinking that opening the show with a song that many listeners would not be familiar with may have caused them to consider going a different direction.

None of the Billboard surveys for the years surrounding it ('75, '76, '78, '79) had any song that peaked lower than #21, so I don't really think they felt the need in those other years. '81 through '83 had lots of low charters, so I can see the logic there as well. In '80 and '84 they probably could have used the Billboard survey without too much friction.

Oct 18, 2011 18:32:54 GMT -5 dukelightning said:

The top 100 of 1977 is the one year end chart that elicits the most questions for me. First of all, why did AT40 decide to do their own calculations when they used Billboard's top 100 in the years before and after. Secondly, I think the reason Billboard placed "Tonight's the Night" ahead of "I Just..." is that they did not want a 4 week #1 song ahead of an 8 week #1 song. Did AT40 decide to their own top 100 because upon doing their own calculations and determining "I Just..." should be the #1 song, they thought there was no choice but to bypass Billboard.

But my biggest complaint and I will preface this by saying I am not a big fan of this song. When AT40 recorded the top 100 of 1977, they also recorded the final weekly program in which "You Light Up My Life" was in its 10th week at #1. So when doing the year end show, they knew how many weeks YLUML had spent at #1. Knowing that it was the longest running #1 hit of the decade, I think they should have ignored the survey period and installed it at #1 for the year. Only the most accomplished chart buffs would have even questioned it and most listeners would not have been surprised.

[johnnywest]

Here's a blurb on one of the biggest chart fixes in history. It's about Cash Box putting "The Letter" by Wayne Newton at number one on their Top 100 chart in 1992:

jabartlett.wordpress.com/2008/12/12/mystery-letter/

[jmack19]

Oct 17, 2011 19:56:33 GMT -5 vince said:

You are all pointing out very possible examples were BB may have manipulated the weekly chart. I have suspicions of manipulation too. I found the following examples of possible manipulation or maybe just bad math in BB’s Year End Top 10’s from 1975, 1977, 1978, 1980, 1982, 1984 and 1985. Some songs rankings did not matched to their point total. While errors in the lower positions may have been mathematical errors, the higher positions (Top 10) may have been through record company influence as they get the prestige of having the years biggest hit. It is possible to get a song’s year end point totals during the pre Soundscan era because the year end chart is based the weekly chart. If you want to see how these were ranked check out my post from a few years back.

The four digit number preceding each song is point total based on the methodology used that year. The methodology changed from year to year.

1975 – The obvious “Some kind Of Wonderful” at #6

2031 *1 LOVE WILL KEEP US TOGETHER The Captain and Tennille (A&M)
1974 *2 RHINESTONE COWBOY Glen Campbell (Capitol)
1854 *3 PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM The Elton John Band (MCA)
1591 *4 BEFORE THE NEXT TEARDROP FALLS Freddy Fender (ABC/Dot)
1581 *5 MY EYES ADORED YOU Frankie Valli (Private Stock)
1052 6 SOME KIND OF WONDERFUL Grand Funk (Capitol)
1560 *7 SHINING STAR Earth, Wind, and Fire (Columbia)
1552 *8 FAME David Bowie (RCA)
1519 *9 LAUGHTER IN THE RAIN Neil Sedaka (MCA)
1481 *10 ONE OF THE THESE NIGHTS The Eagles (Asylum)

This instance could be human error. See below:

Oct 19, 2011 16:32:07 GMT -5 at40petebattistini said:

It's long been my belief that the reason the AT40 staff tabulated their own year-end list was primarily due to timing. For example, according to AT40's 1975 production schedule, part one of the year-end program was recorded on Saturday, November 15. And the second part was completed one week later. As you know, for Casey to begin recording on November 15, the song list has to be in place, and the program has to be scripted and laid out in advance. I don't believe Billboard's year-end Top 100 was ready in time to fit into the show's production schedule.

There are deadlines to get the year end numbers in as quick as possible & after calculating things numbers probably start running together.

SOME KIND OF WONDERFUL Grand Funk run was in 1974 & 1975

Total points:    1052
-1975 points:   -883(according to old-chart.com)
=1974 points: +169

if you transpose the 1974 points-169 can become 691.

1974 points:      691
+1975 points: +883
Total points:    1574

You can easily wind up with:

2031 *1 LOVE WILL KEEP US TOGETHER The Captain and Tennille (A&M)
1974 *2 RHINESTONE COWBOY Glen Campbell (Capitol)
1854 *3 PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM The Elton John Band (MCA)
1591 *4 BEFORE THE NEXT TEARDROP FALLS Freddy Fender (ABC/Dot)
1581 *5 MY EYES ADORED YOU Frankie Valli (Private Stock)
1574   6 SOME KIND OF WONDERFUL Grand Funk (Capitol)
1560 *7 SHINING STAR Earth, Wind, and Fire (Columbia)
1552 *8 FAME David Bowie (RCA)
1519 *9 LAUGHTER IN THE RAIN Neil Sedaka (MCA)
1481 *10 ONE OF THE THESE NIGHTS The Eagles (Asylum)

[mkarns]

Earlier in this thread there was discussion of the 1978 "Shadow Dancing"/"Baker Street" issue. Scott Paton, then on AT40's staff, explains how he saw it in the comments section of this thread:

jabartlett.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/at40-from-the-inside/#comments

Also, Paton states that one reason why AT40 did its own year end countdown for 1977 was that they didn't think it made sense for "Tonight's the Night (Gonna Be Alright)", very much a 1976 hit, to be on top. However, in later years AT40 didn't always have similar issues with Billboard's rankings, as the 1987, 1988, and 1989 year end #1's were all from late in the previous calendar year.

[pointpark04]

The mind can't help but wander off to a deep, dark place after reading that story about "Baker Street". I wonder how many times BB magazine manipulated statistics to favor one song over another, or one artist over another.

Fascinating and despicable at once.

[dukelightning]

It has also been stated that RSO and/or the Gibbs manipulated "If I Can't Have You" to #1 at the expense of "The Closer I Get to You". So only 4 songs peaked at #2 in 1978 and 2 of them seem to have been manipulated out of the #1 position by RSO et al.

[Mike]

Jul 11, 2014 17:55:33 GMT -5 mkarns said:

Also, Paton states that one reason why AT40 did its own year end countdown for 1977 was that they didn't think it made sense for "Tonight's the Night (Gonna Be Alright)", very much a 1976 hit, to be on top. However, in later years AT40 didn't always have similar issues with Billboard's rankings, as the 1987, 1988, and 1989 year end #1's were all from late in the previous calendar year.

Dare I say it, but I wonder if the staff personally might have questioned those years as well (maybe not so much 88 since that really was George's year), but under ABC's guidance it wasn't going to matter because no way in hell was ABC going to deviate from the BB rankings those years.

You know...in the 80s they steadfastly went with their own chart starting with 1980, and kept going with it until the year their #1 for the year didn't match Billboard's, 1984. Wonder if that was a motivating factor for switching to Billboard for 1985 and on, until 1989 and the fiasco that was "Look Away" at #1 for the year - thus, time to switch again...

The 5-year runs with year-end chart methods during the 80s does also make me wonder if the 1985-89 set, at least, was set by contract.

[Mike]

Oct 17, 2011 20:12:52 GMT -5 reachinforthestars said:

#1 songs on the country charts in the 80's (also known as, #1 SONGS FOR EVERYONE!)

Oh, yes...judging by the way the country charts tend to go today, or so I'm told, let's just say Billboard might not have been the ones at fault there...