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Post by jaxxalude on Nov 10, 2011 18:35:44 GMT -5
To quote one of the biggest clichés ever in hip-hop: rap is something you do, hip-hop is something you live. Basically, hip-hop is the music genre and the culture as a whole. Rap is, well, what an MC/rapper does. That's it; nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by jaxxalude on Nov 10, 2011 18:44:32 GMT -5
And before I forget, there's another thing here: if only hip-hop was the lone catalyst in the fragmentation and consequent crisis of Mainstream Top 40 during most of the 90's! I mean, remember grunge? Or the subsequent rise of alt.rock? What about country? And there was also R&B's move-away from New Jack Swing's poppier stylings in favor of a harder-edged approach - what they called at the time hip-hop soul. The only thing marv gets right is that Mainstream Top 40 was pulling away in very different directions and leaving listeners very much in the cold. But what was Top 40 supposed to do when its core audience (teens & young adults) was shying away from mainstream pop music and heading into these other directions I alluded to in the previous paragraph? So they had to start appealing to an older constituency instead, which made for a quite bland scenario in Top 40 between 1992 and 1996. The rest of marv's analysis, give or take some disputable things, is pretty much accurate.
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Post by Shadoe Fan on Nov 10, 2011 21:12:47 GMT -5
I think there was still a lot of good music in the 1990s. As I've been listening to a lot of 1993 AT40 lately, I've heard great music by Duran Duran, Michael Jackson, Tasmin Archer, Stone Temple Pilots, Gin Blossoms, PM Dawn, Jodeci, and a lot more.
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Post by jaxxalude on Nov 11, 2011 10:37:38 GMT -5
Of course there was some good music during the 90's at Top 40. But I think we all agree that the real excitement was very much elsewhere during most of the decade. In many ways, when people talk about how things are really fragmented these days, I'd say that that scenario already started taking full shape in the 90's, if not the late 80's.
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Post by shadster on Nov 11, 2011 23:49:17 GMT -5
It wasn't Rap that caused Top40 to fragment. I mean it wasnt JUST rap. We are forgetting about heavy metal. At the end of the 80s you could hear Motley Crue/Metallica followed by Young MC/Digital Underground. Variety was what made Pop, Pop. Looking back in retrospect we can see that these wide extreme's of the spectrum, coupled w/ your usual Rod Stewart/Phill Collins songs is what made everyone jump ship. Metal though, did give way to grunge.
There was NO explosion of Rap in the 90's. THe 90's were akin to the late 80s. When rap 1st started getting airplay on Top40 radio, one could only hear just a couple songs at any given time. Your average Top40 chart would only have a handfull of Rap songs or less on it. This continued throughout the entire decade of the 90's. 1, 2 maybe 3 TOTAL rap songs in the 40 in any given week. Its populariry w/ TOp40 radio was obviously not that great. Look at Snoop Dog for example: His BIGGEST hit of the 90s was "Whats my name" which PEAKED at #20. Big Pun's "Not a player" never charted. Its peak was #45, but I do remember it getting some airplay on a few CHR's, particulary ones that leaned Rhythmic. Dr Dre's biggest was "Nuthin but a G thang" peaking at #24. BIG, Mo $ Mo Problems peaked at #29. 2pac's "California" his biggest hit, peaked at #35, Naughty by Natures 2 biggest hits, "OPP" peaked at #18, an hip hop hooray peaked at #33. I think its pretty clear how popular Rap was on CHR.
No No No, it wasnt until the early 2000's when Rap exploded. Thats when HALF the top40 chart was consumed with Rap Hip hop. I'm sure rap was very popular in the 90s, but not on Top40 radio. It was confined to the place where it belongs, on Urban stations. Today we are seeing yet another movement, as Rap/Hiphop is losing some popularity and Dance is making a resurgence. Speaking strictly about Top40/pop radio.
Getting back to the actual Topic of this thread, The top 40 charts of the 90s weren't all that great IMO. I've listened to several Casey's Top 40 shows from the 90s an theres just not enough songs on the countdown that excite me. There are some, no question about that, but the chart as a whole from any given week, just doesnt measure up when comparing it to say an 80's chart.
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Nov 12, 2011 0:07:18 GMT -5
Yeah Shadster. I have to agree with the assessment that it wasn't JUST rap, but it did play a key role. I mean, Def Leppard, Ratt and Bon Jovi weren't all that light and they were around from the early-mid 80's.
The addition of the songs by Poison, Motley Crue, Guns & Roses and such weren't THAT bad. Not much different than Hocus Pocus in 1973 which was pretty heavy for that timeframe.
It was (to me) more the disappearance of Country almost completely and all the A/C material sounding alot alike. It was when they segregated out things like country that top 40 went down the john. And Rap started picking up at the same time. So a little from column A, a little from Column B etc...
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Post by marv101 on Nov 12, 2011 1:10:48 GMT -5
There was certainly plenty of great music during the nineties, but the format's overindulgence in rap music at the end of the eighties helped give rise to the Hot AC & AC formats, as well as country, which exploded thanks to a slew of monstrous new country acts of the late eighties and early nineties.
The list would include Clint Black, Garth Brooks & Alan Jackson, to name a few, as well as Kenny Chesney, Toby Keith & Tim McGraw, who went on to become the most played artist of the following decade (2000-2009) on North American radio.
Hot AC really cleaned up in snagging millions of listeners from top 40 radio during the nineties, but the renaissance top 40 enjoyed starting in 1997 came from playing more music which was more tolerable to adults, and especially the 25-54 women, the most important demo in existencesince, their spending decisions regarding homes and automobiles drive our economy far more than the members of any other demo.
There's still plenty of 90s music in the libraries of many AC & Hot AC stations today, as well as tons of stupendous product from the eighties when top 40 was essentially untouchable.
There were tons of top 40 outlets across the country during the eighties which repeatedly hit double digits ratings-wise; KIIS-FM's 10.0 rating in the exhilirating-and-then-some fall of 1984 was stupendous to say the least, and other CHR/Pop powerhouses such as Z100 (KKRZ/Portland), WNCI, WZPL, KDWB, KTFM, WDCG, WFLZ & others routinely enjoyed double-digits shares for most of the eighties.
The 'other' Z100 (WHTZ/NYC) certainly had great ratings during the eighties, but I don't know if they ever reached double digits during the eighties.
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Nov 12, 2011 8:37:11 GMT -5
I hate the term Hot A/C. To me A/C is "soft Rock" if you will. Stations that play A/C even way back played Bread & The Carpenters.
Hot A/C channels play songs that are nowhere near that format. Hot Hits would be more appropriate.
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Post by mstgator on Nov 12, 2011 11:49:46 GMT -5
There were tons of top 40 outlets across the country during the eighties which repeatedly hit double digits ratings-wise; KIIS-FM's 10.0 rating in the exhilirating-and-then-some fall of 1984 was stupendous to say the least, and other CHR/Pop powerhouses such as Z100 (KKRZ/Portland), WNCI, WZPL, KDWB, KTFM, WDCG, WFLZ & others routinely enjoyed double-digits shares for most of the eighties. Regarding WFLZ, they didn't take to the airwaves until 1989 (and leaned heavily rhythmic for their first half-decade). You're probably thinking of WRBQ, which pulled in huge numbers in Tampa during the '80s before WFLZ showed up and siphoned off their younger listeners.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2011 13:38:24 GMT -5
There were tons of top 40 outlets across the country during the eighties which repeatedly hit double digits ratings-wise; KIIS-FM's 10.0 rating in the exhilirating-and-then-some fall of 1984 was stupendous to say the least, and other CHR/Pop powerhouses such as Z100 (KKRZ/Portland), WNCI, WZPL, KDWB, KTFM, WDCG, WFLZ & others routinely enjoyed double-digits shares for most of the eighties. Regarding WFLZ, they didn't take to the airwaves until 1989 (and leaned heavily rhythmic for their first half-decade). You're probably thinking of WRBQ, which pulled in huge numbers in Tampa during the '80s before WFLZ showed up and siphoned off their younger listeners. That's WRBQ, Tampa's LEGENDARY Q105 to you!!
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Post by marv101 on Nov 12, 2011 23:49:01 GMT -5
IIRC, Those legendary battles between WFLZ (aka 'The Power Pig') & WRBQ were really intense before and after Scott Shannon left to go to Z100.
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Post by jdelachjr2002 on Nov 13, 2011 1:04:03 GMT -5
IIRC, Those legendary battles between WFLZ (aka 'The Power Pig') & WRBQ were really intense before and after Scott Shannon left to go to Z100. Scott Shannon left WRBQ in 1983. WFLZ didn't exist until 1989. Though at some point WFLZ did steal Shannon's syndicated "Rockin' America" show away from WRBQ (don't know when exactly).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2011 9:54:08 GMT -5
IIRC, Those legendary battles between WFLZ (aka 'The Power Pig') & WRBQ were really intense before and after Scott Shannon left to go to Z100. Scott Shannon left WRBQ in 1983. WFLZ didn't exist until 1989. Though at some point WFLZ did steal Shannon's syndicated "Rockin' America" show away from WRBQ (don't know when exactly). As great as they may have been, none of them are worth listening to now.
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Post by marv101 on Nov 13, 2011 10:51:46 GMT -5
Was there another top 40 station in Tampa in the early 80s besides WRBQ?
The format flat-out exploded thanks to the launching of numerous stations which went on to become powerhouses, including KIIS & Z100.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2011 11:35:24 GMT -5
Was there another top 40 station in Tampa in the early 80s besides WRBQ? The format flat-out exploded thanks to the launching of numerous stations which went on to become powerhouses, including KIIS & Z100. No idea. I moved here in 2008.
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