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Post by marv101 on Nov 7, 2011 10:52:50 GMT -5
I don't know if they will, since the nineties were a disaster for the top 40 format.
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Post by statenislandfan on Nov 7, 2011 13:52:51 GMT -5
I agree with Marv101. I think playing these '90's show at this time is very unlikely. No hot AC radio station or adult comp is going to play the show because of all the rap songs that flooded the chart back then.... Unless they pull a WPLJ - FM where rap songs were introduced by Shadoe, played for 30 seconds to a minute and the countdown moved on towards number 1.
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Post by matt on Nov 7, 2011 16:39:54 GMT -5
I think somebody will air them at some point. Yes, Top 40 was in no man's land during the 90's, but there were still a lot of good songs on the charts and so much of the appeal of listening to the shows has to do with Casey himself. The handful of CT40 shows from the 90's that I have gone back and listened to are in many ways every bit as good as those from the 80's with the stories, listener questions, etc. As time goes by, music of the 90's enters that "oldies" realm into which past decades eventually make their way.
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Post by jaxxalude on Nov 7, 2011 17:24:24 GMT -5
I agree with Marv101. I think playing these '90's show at this time is very unlikely. No hot AC radio station or adult comp is going to play the show because of all the rap songs that flooded the chart back then.... Unless they pull a WPLJ - FM where rap songs were introduced by Shadoe, played for 30 seconds to a minute and the countdown moved on towards number 1. Except that Hot AC has been slowly but surely lifting its embargo on rap in the last few years. And besides, if anything, one of the most infamous things about the Top 40 format during the 90's was exactly the fact that they were very slow to react to rap's growing popularity. They probably thought it would be like disco - a mere fad. Needless to say that wasn't exactly the case.
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Post by marv101 on Nov 9, 2011 18:08:51 GMT -5
Actually, it was the other way around; when rap music started invading top 40 radio in the very late eighties after what happened here in LA in 1986 (Emmis launched CHR/Rhythmic KPWR that spring, and it took all of 9 months for that station to replace the beyond-humungous KIIS-FM at #1, which stunned the entire industry, since LA has always been the most closely-watched radio market in the nation), the format lost millions of listeners and dozens of stations as the 'soccer moms' fled the format in search of safe & non-offensive music, taking their very impressionable kids with them, into safer formats such as AC, Country and the fledgling Hot AC format.
The hip hop movement wouldn't have decimated the top 40 format if it had continued to create mass-appeal masterpieces as Janet Jackson & Bobby Brown did with their humungous-and-then-some 'Rhythm Nation 1814' & 'Don't Be Cruel' CDs in the late 80s, but that turned out not to be the case, as the vulgar lyrics and repetitive musicianship of the rap music which inundated the format drove hordes of listeners to other formats.
But an inordinate amount of rap music, drenched with lyrics more closely associated with an all-night cussing contest between Andrew 'Dice' Clay & Richard Pryor, as opposed to a safe exchange of zingers between Letterman & Leno or Jon Stewart & Stephen Colbert, definitely did severe damage to the top 40 format--no doubt about it.
R&Rs top 40 panel lost HALF of its reporters between 1987 & 2002; 1987 charttoppers such as 'Bad', 'Lost In Emotion' and the exhilirating & then some 'I Knew You Were Waiting For Me' were certainly substantially more appealing to a much-wider cross section of radio listeners and CD buyers as opposed to such 2002 hits as 'Lose Yourself', 'Hot In Herre' & 'U Got It Bad'.
Lots of Hot AC stations did play some rap music in the nineties which was totally incompatible with the Hot AC format, and one of the most used 'positioning statements' used by Hot AC stations back then (Today's best music without the rap & hard rock) was ignored.
Hot AC stations outnumber CHR/Rhythmic stations today by a 2 1/2 to 1 margin (476 to 191) according to Arbitron as of the end of 2010, and ranks #6 vs. #8 in average weekly listeners (41,000,000 vs. 35,000,000), but the alarming item for the CHR/Rhytmic format is that it's lost a full percentage point in share size since 2004 (3.5 vs. 4.5).
Hot AC today is in much better shape, but Kidd Kelly's 'Backtrax USA 90's' show is about the only 90s-centered syndicated program that I know of.
I don't see any propsects of anybody launching a 90's version of AT 40, primarily because the music was decidedly inferior to top 40 music of the previous four decades, and especially since May of 1965, when KHJ/Los Angeles was launched, which dramatically reinvented the top 40 format, and led to the eventual demise of both KRLA (where Casey was part of a killer jock lineup, sandwiched between Charlie O'Donnell & Bob Eubanks), and KFWB, which flipped to all-news in March of 1968.
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Post by Caseyfan4everRyanfanNever on Nov 9, 2011 18:22:05 GMT -5
Of course they could use Casey's Countdown/American Top 20 AC or Casey's Hot 20/American Top 20 HAC instead but the first option would omit 1990-Apr 1992 and the second option would omit 1990-Oct 1994.
Or they could give the stations a choice between CT40/AT40 for those who choose to include rap or one of those above if the station does not play rap.
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Post by jaxxalude on Nov 9, 2011 18:28:17 GMT -5
Actually, it was the other way around; when rap music started invading top 40 radio in the very late eighties after what happened here in LA in 1986 (Emmis launched CHR/Rhythmic KPWR that spring, and it took all of 9 months for that station to replace the beyond-humungous KIIS-FM at #1, which stunned the entire industry, since LA has always been the most closely-watched radio market in the nation), the format lost millions of listeners and dozens of stations as the 'soccer moms' fled the format in search of safe & non-offensive music, taking their very impressionable kids with them, into safer formats such as AC, Country and the fledgling Hot AC format. The hip hop movement wouldn't have decimated the top 40 format if it had continued to create mass-appeal masterpieces as Janet Jackson & Bobby Brown did with their humungous-and-then-some 'Rhythm Nation 1814' & 'Don't Be Cruel' CDs in the late 80s, but that turned out not to be the case, as the vulgar lyrics and repetitive musicianship of the rap music which inundated the format drove hordes of listeners to other formats. But an inordinate amount of rap music, drenched with lyrics more closely associated with an all-night cussing contest between Andrew 'Dice' Clay & Richard Pryor, as opposed to a safe exchange of zingers between Letterman & Leno or Jon Stewart & Stephen Colbert, definitely did severe damage to the top 40 format--no doubt about it. R&Rs top 40 panel lost HALF of its reporters between 1987 & 2002; 1987 charttoppers such as 'Bad', 'Lost In Emotion' and the exhilirating & then some 'I Knew You Were Waiting For Me' were certainly substantially more appealing to a much-wider cross section of radio listeners and CD buyers as opposed to such 2002 hits as 'Lose Yourself', 'Hot In Herre' & 'U Got It Bad'. Lots of Hot AC stations did play some rap music in the nineties which was totally incompatible with the Hot AC format, and one of the most used 'positioning statements' used by Hot AC stations back then (Today's best music without the rap & hard rock) was ignored. Hot AC stations outnumber CHR/Rhythmic stations today by a 2 1/2 to 1 margin (476 to 191) according to Arbitron as of the end of 2010, and ranks #6 vs. #8 in average weekly listeners (41,000,000 vs. 35,000,000), but the alarming item for the CHR/Rhytmic format is that it's lost a full percentage point in share size since 2004 (3.5 vs. 4.5). Hot AC today is in much better shape, but Kidd Kelly's 'Backtrax USA 90's' show is about the only 90s-centered syndicated program that I know of. I don't see any propsects of anybody launching a 90's version of AT 40, primarily because the music was decidedly inferior to top 40 music of the previous four decades, and especially since May of 1965, when KHJ/Los Angeles was launched, which dramatically reinvented the top 40 format, and led to the eventual demise of both KRLA (where Casey was part of a killer jock lineup, sandwiched between Charlie O'Donnell & Bob Eubanks), and KFWB, which flipped to all-news in March of 1968. Now here's a complete alternative universe to History, if I ever saw one!
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Post by easye on Nov 9, 2011 20:35:23 GMT -5
When KPWR was introduced, it was a dance/top40 station. It was not a rap station unless that is how you label Madonna, Expose, Whitney Houston, Jody Watley, and other artists who got play at dance clubs. Janet Jackson and Bobby Brown were also played because they had dance tunes.
One year, I tried to write down KPWR's year-ending countdown chart. I gave up though because it was just about one big club mix of their most popular songs of the year.
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Post by dukelightning on Nov 9, 2011 20:58:53 GMT -5
Actually, it was the other way around; when rap music started invading top 40 radio in the very late eighties after what happened here in LA in 1986 (Emmis launched CHR/Rhythmic KPWR that spring, and it took all of 9 months for that station to replace the beyond-humungous KIIS-FM at #1, which stunned the entire industry, since LA has always been the most closely-watched radio market in the nation), the format lost millions of listeners and dozens of stations as the 'soccer moms' fled the format in search of safe & non-offensive music, taking their very impressionable kids with them, into safer formats such as AC, Country and the fledgling Hot AC format. The hip hop movement wouldn't have decimated the top 40 format if it had continued to create mass-appeal masterpieces as Janet Jackson & Bobby Brown did with their humungous-and-then-some 'Rhythm Nation 1814' & 'Don't Be Cruel' CDs in the late 80s, but that turned out not to be the case, as the vulgar lyrics and repetitive musicianship of the rap music which inundated the format drove hordes of listeners to other formats. But an inordinate amount of rap music, drenched with lyrics more closely associated with an all-night cussing contest between Andrew 'Dice' Clay & Richard Pryor, as opposed to a safe exchange of zingers between Letterman & Leno or Jon Stewart & Stephen Colbert, definitely did severe damage to the top 40 format--no doubt about it. R&Rs top 40 panel lost HALF of its reporters between 1987 & 2002; 1987 charttoppers such as 'Bad', 'Lost In Emotion' and the exhilirating & then some 'I Knew You Were Waiting For Me' were certainly substantially more appealing to a much-wider cross section of radio listeners and CD buyers as opposed to such 2002 hits as 'Lose Yourself', 'Hot In Herre' & 'U Got It Bad'. Lots of Hot AC stations did play some rap music in the nineties which was totally incompatible with the Hot AC format, and one of the most used 'positioning statements' used by Hot AC stations back then (Today's best music without the rap & hard rock) was ignored. Hot AC stations outnumber CHR/Rhythmic stations today by a 2 1/2 to 1 margin (476 to 191) according to Arbitron as of the end of 2010, and ranks #6 vs. #8 in average weekly listeners (41,000,000 vs. 35,000,000), but the alarming item for the CHR/Rhytmic format is that it's lost a full percentage point in share size since 2004 (3.5 vs. 4.5). Hot AC today is in much better shape, but Kidd Kelly's 'Backtrax USA 90's' show is about the only 90s-centered syndicated program that I know of. I don't see any propsects of anybody launching a 90's version of AT 40, primarily because the music was decidedly inferior to top 40 music of the previous four decades, and especially since May of 1965, when KHJ/Los Angeles was launched, which dramatically reinvented the top 40 format, and led to the eventual demise of both KRLA (where Casey was part of a killer jock lineup, sandwiched between Charlie O'Donnell & Bob Eubanks), and KFWB, which flipped to all-news in March of 1968. Thanks for pointing out once again to those with their heads in the sand how rap music totally ruined top 40 radio. BTW, can someone tell me what inspired these so-called artists to sing about violence toward women and the like? Exactly how is that relevant to what pop music is supposed to be about? Rap, hip-hop, whatever silly name you want to attach to it ended what had been a great period for top 40 radio. And we can thank these clowns singing about all their violent subject matter for that. Where was this type of lyric in the 60s, 70s and 80s?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 21:21:32 GMT -5
Hot AC today is in much better shape, but Kidd Kelly's 'Backtrax USA 90's' show is about the only 90s-centered syndicated program that I know of. Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 90s edition.
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Nov 9, 2011 21:58:56 GMT -5
Dukedeb, exactly, sure there was the stray bad lyric. (Be it sexual or violent) But at least Robert Plant, Mick Jagger and hell even Russel Hitchcock didn't resort to "I'm gonna kill dat bit(h yo"
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Post by jaxxalude on Nov 10, 2011 9:40:48 GMT -5
When KPWR was introduced, it was a dance/top40 station. It was not a rap station unless that is how you label Madonna, Expose, Whitney Houston, Jody Watley, and other artists who got play at dance clubs. Janet Jackson and Bobby Brown were also played because they had dance tunes. One year, I tried to write down KPWR's year-ending countdown chart. I gave up though because it was just about one big club mix of their most popular songs of the year. If that was marv's only failure in his post! The guy genuinely believes that rap had a lot of Mainstream Top 40 play during the 90's, which researchable facts help prove wasn't the case. Lots of songs which had powerplay on MTV then and are now considered almost standards (both B.I.G.'s "One More Chance", "Big Poppa" and "Hypnotized", Dr. Dre's "Nuthin' But a G. Thang", Naughty By Nature's "Hip Hop Hooray", Ice Cube's "It Was A Good Day", Snoop Dogg's "Gin & Juice", 2Pac's "Dear Mamma" and "How Do U Want It", Busta Rhymes' "Woo Ha!! (Got You All In Check)", "Dangerous" and "Turn It Up/Fire It Up" (Remix), Junior M.A.F.I.A.'s "Get Money", Big Punisher's "Still Not A Player" and even Juvenile's "Back That Thang/Azz Up") were noticeable by their absence on the Top 40 portion of the format when monitored airplay came into the fore. But hey, anyone can believe their own religion all they want. Too bad facts get in the way and show that for every rap track that reached the lower regions of the Mainstream Top 40 charts, three or four other songs which reached the Top 10 were by the Dave Matthews Band, Hootie & The Blowfish or Gin Blossoms. Not to mention how the only Black music Top 40 was willing to play was pretty much the family-friendly strands of Boyz II Men, TLC and past-era Mariah Carey and Janet Jackson - hardly any rap here. It was what it was and anyone can check that out.
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Post by marv101 on Nov 10, 2011 12:05:06 GMT -5
I stated that the explosion of rap music at top 40 radio in the late eighties turned out to be a disaster at the format insofar as the nineties were concerned, otherwise several dozen stations wouldn't have bailed out of the format in less than a decade.
KPWR definitely blew a hole in KIIS by swiping tons of their teen listeners; when KIIS started going after those same listeners their ratings went down even faster.
They even went to a much harder hard-core rap music position on the AM side (1150 AM) in an assault on KPWR, but that was dropped when it began to take listeners away from KIIS-FM while KPWR rolled right along.
KPWR played some top 40 product in the late eighties, but it was the presence of rap music alongisde the smattering of top 40 stuff that they played which really did a number on KIIS, but that product was gone from the station after a PD change in 1991 after KIIS returned to #1 in the ratings, and KPWR was refocused as a hard-core rap station.
The same thing happened in too many markets to count in which an upstart CHR/Rhythmic station demolished the local heritage CHR/Pop powerhouse (KBBT to KTFM in San Antonio being among the most noteworthy examples), while in other markets top 40 formatted stations bailed out of the format altogether for Hot AC, with Indy's WZPL among them.
But the fact remains that the nineties were a disaster for top 40 radio; the format was under assault at the low end by CHR/Rhythmic stations, & at the high end by AC, Hot AC, Smooth Jazz & Country stations from coast to coast, and was a directionless and rudderless mess for most of that decade.
Only the one-two punch of soundstage-concocted and other irrelevant lightweights such as 'NSync, the Backstreet Boys, the Spice Girls & Britney Spears, when placed alongside such Hot AC staples and alternative-leaning acts including Third Eye Blind, Matchbox 20, the Wallflowers and Sugar Ray, all combined to give the format a shot in the arm in the late nineties as some women returned to the format.
When the format incomprehensibly started loading up on the likes of Nelly, Usher, JLo, Eminem, Mary J Blige and others at the start of the following decade, millions of those same females wound up abandoning the format again.
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Post by jaxxalude on Nov 10, 2011 13:24:40 GMT -5
Are you sure about that? I remember reading articles at the time stating how testing scores of big hip-hop hits came out higher precisely with the younger female demos. And another thing: what are we talking about here exactly? You drone on and one about rap, yet put Usher, J.Lo and Mary J. Blige (not to mention Bobby Brown and Janet Jackson earlier) in that same boat. Last time I checked, all of them sang, not rapped.
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Post by Caseyfan4everRyanfanNever on Nov 10, 2011 14:47:37 GMT -5
I think the problem here is defining "rap". Are "rap" and "hip hop" the same thing? I've always thought that "hip hop" is a softer, probably less objectionable alternative to "rap" and "rap" is synonymous with "gangsta rap", which is full of profanity and which offended more people.
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