jebsib
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jebsib on Aug 30, 2012 22:51:55 GMT -5
After the "Urban Cowboy" era, and "Islands in the Stream", there was a huge and unprecedented shut-out of ANY country single from the top 40 chart.
Much had to do with country retail singles being phased out, and a lot seemed to do with the perceived lack of coolness factor of mid '80s country output.
In fact until a minor blip (Restless Heart (#33) in 1987), there seemed not to be any c&w entries in the top 40 until 1992's "Achy Breaky Heart".
My big question is : Does anyone know the last definitive country song to chart on AT40 before the freeze? Was it something like Kenny Rogers' "What About Me" (a pop song that performed poorly (#70) on the country charts, and featured Rocker Kim Carnes with r&b crooner, James Ingram)?
Or was there something more obscure that just grazed the survey? Any one know?
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Post by mct1 on Aug 30, 2012 23:18:11 GMT -5
This same question came up recently in another thread: Restless Heart had a great sound--somewhat akin to the Eagles with their country rock and vocal harmonies. I remember hearing their greatest hits back in the early 90's, and they had quite a few good songs in addition to this one. It is somewhat surprising what a dearth of country crossovers there were in the late 80's. Guess country just wasn't "cool" at the time. Somehow, Billy Ray Cyrus made it cool again...though in retrospect, it's hard to figure how that happened. Before "I'll Still Be Loving You", the last Top 40 hit to feature a country artist was "What About Me?" by Kenny Rogers with Kim Carnes and James Ingram, which was on the chart in late 1984. Given that it was a collarboration between Rogers and two non-country artists, that it wasn't a particularly country-flavored song, and that it wasn't a country hit of any significance (per Wikipedia it only hit #70 on the country chart, and I suspect it wasn't really promoted to the country market at all), though, I'd put an asterisk next to it. Aside from "What About Me", the last Top 40 hit by a country artist was a solo single by Kenny Rogers, "This Woman", from early 1984. Even that one didn't actually cross over, though; it was on a single where one side was promoted to the country market ("Buried Treasure", a #3 hit on the country chart), the other to the AC and pop markets ("This Woman"). This was not an uncommon practice in the '70s and '80s. To my knowledge, the last country song before "I'll Still Be Loving You" to truly cross over was Deborah Allen's "Baby I Lied", which was in the Top 40 at the very end of 1983 and very beginning of 1984. In any event, if we don't count "What About Me?", there was a period of about eight years (exactly how long depends on whether you start the clock with "Baby I Lied" or "This Woman") in which "I'll Still Be Loving You" was the only country song to hit the Top 40. The only other country song I know of that even came close to the Top 40 during that period was Dan Seals' "Bop", which hit #42 in 1985. In 1985, John Fogerty also did the opposite of what Rogers did with "This Woman" -- while his song "The Old Man Down The Road" was on the pop chart, its flip side "Big Train (From Memphis)" was promoted to country radio and reached #38 on the country chart. A subsequent post in that thread notes that there was at least one more song during the 1984-92 period that was a hit on both the pop and country charts, but it wasn't really a "crossover" hit: Roy Orbison's "You Got It". |
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Post by lasvegaskid on Aug 31, 2012 0:01:24 GMT -5
To All The Girls I've Loved Before; #1 Country, #5 pop
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Post by briguy52748 on Aug 31, 2012 7:02:20 GMT -5
Later in the summer of 1984, a couple of months after "To All the Girls I've Loved Before" peaked on the country and pop charts, the crossover hit "Stuck On You" by Lionel Richie went No. 3 pop, No. 24 country. Yeah, I know "Stuck on You" is primarily a pop record, but it did well on the country chart as well, so arguably this could qualify.
(Incidentally, Richie's "Deep River Woman" (with Alabama on backing vocals) from early 1987 was a No. 10 hit on the pop chart, the flip side of his top 10 hit "Ballerina Girl.")
Despite the drought of crossover country songs in 1985-1986 reaching the top 40 of the Billboard Hot 100, there were a few that did OK, even very well on the Adult Contemporary Singles chart. Kenny Rogers is the obvious example: "Crazy" (No. 5, March 1985); "Real Love" (with Dolly Parton, No. 13 in August 1985); "Morning Desire" (No. 8, January 1986); "Twenty Years Ago" (No. 15 in March 1987); and "When You Put Your Heart Into It" (No. 17, summer 1988, actually surpassing its mid-20s peak on hte country chart) ... just a few examples.
Recall that Roy Orbison had a crossover hit in 1989, with "You Got It" (No. 7 country, No. 9 pop).
Dan Seals just missed the top 40 of the pop charts with his late 1985 No. 1 country smash "Bop," peaking at No. 42 on the Hot 100 ... but he did make it to No. 10 on the AC Singles chart.
Restless Heart's "I'll Still Be Loving You," the No. 1 country hit from 1987, which peaked at No. 33 on the Hot 100, did even better on the AC chart, climbing all the way to No. 3. The follow up, "Why Does It Have to Be (Wrong or Right)," also a No. 1 country hit, didn't chart in the Hot 100 but did get substantial airplay on AC stations, eventually peaking at No. 11 at the end of the summer of '87. (Another song, "New York (Hold Her Tight)," got into the mid-20s on the AC chart but did not make either the country or Hot 100 charts.)
Brian
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Post by michaelcasselman on Aug 31, 2012 8:07:25 GMT -5
Did Billy Vera's "At This Moment" hit the country charts at all late '86/early '87? How about ZZ Top or the Fabulous Thunderbirds AT40 hits? Although they leaned more on the '(southern) rock' side, they could arguably be said to have a bit of 'country' flavor to them.
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jebsib
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jebsib on Aug 31, 2012 9:26:21 GMT -5
mct1 - thank you so much for that confirmation; I've often wondered. (Bizarre that the issue came up in another thread so recently!)
Brian - thanks for those follow-up examples
michael - "At this Moment" hit #42 on the country charts in 1987.
I have long wondered what happened at the time that caused such a drought. Growing up in the 80s, I recall a standard teenage reaction in the northwest was "I like all kinds of music!! ... except Country". Perhaps this mentality permeated radio programmers on the top 40 side and solidified their stance not to release 45's?
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Post by jlthorpe on Aug 31, 2012 9:45:00 GMT -5
jebsib, it could have been MTV. Didn't MTV have a ban on playing any country music videos?
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Post by pb on Aug 31, 2012 9:46:34 GMT -5
Surprised Randy Travis "Forever And Ever Amen" wasn't top 40, I remember hearing that a lot back then and I listened to very little country music.
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Post by briguy52748 on Aug 31, 2012 10:46:39 GMT -5
jebsib, it could have been MTV. Didn't MTV have a ban on playing any country music videos? I don't believe so. Eddie Rabbitt's " Step By Step" was one of the first, if not THE first, to be played on MTV back in the fall of 1981. And Ronnie Milsap had several videos in 1982-1983, including " Any Day Now" and " Stranger in My House," that saw airplay on MTV. Additionally, I believe at least two videos by Moe Bandy and Joe Stampley – " Where's the Dress" and " Boys Night Out" – have seen airplay on MTV. Moe and Joe? Yep, two artists known for traditional honky-tonk country ballads (as solo artists) and then their corny comedy tunes (as duets). Amazingly, between them – both solo and duet songs – only Joe's " Soul Song" from 1973 made the Hot 100's top 40. Also to follow up on country crossovers from 1984-1992, there was Deborah Allen's " Baby I Lied," a top 5 country hit from the end of 1983 that made the Hot 100, skirting up to No. 25 in early 1984. Brian |
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Post by matt on Aug 31, 2012 11:18:16 GMT -5
jebsib, it could have been MTV. Didn't MTV have a ban on playing any country music videos? I don't believe so. Eddie Rabbitt's " Step By Step" was one of the first, if not THE first, to be played on MTV back in the fall of 1981. And Ronnie Milsap had several videos in 1982-1983, including " Any Day Now" and " Stranger in My House," that saw airplay on MTV. Additionally, I believe at least two videos by Moe Bandy and Joe Stampley ��" Where's the Dress" and " Boys Night Out" ��have seen airplay on MTV. Moe and Joe? Yep, two artists known for traditional honky-tonk country ballads (as solo artists) and then their corny comedy tunes (as duets). Amazingly, between them � both solo and duet songs � only Joe's " Soul Song" from 1973 made the Hot 100's top 40. Brian I watched fairly regularly back in the early days of MTV, and I believe you are correct regarding the Eddie Rabbit song--I do recall seeing that video (and maybe another of his) on MTV during that first year. However, there is no way that artists like Joe Stampley and Moe Brandy would have ever seen airtime on MTV. Keep in mind that MTV started out with more of an album rock and AC format, which is why there was so much Styx, REO Speedwagon, Cliff Richard, Rod Stewart, etc, during the early days. They ultimately broadened to add new wave and disco/dance music, but Eddie Rabbit fit into that early format enough to get some airplay. The point is, most of MTV's music was pretty mainstream, especially at first. Joe Stampley and Moe Brandy had no place on MTV early on, as there were no straight ahead country songs (only crossovers that were almost more rock/pop than country). Maybe you saw these on the Nashville Network (TNN--remember that channel)? They played country videos from pretty early on. And maybe this sheds light on MTV's influence on pushing country music out of the mainstream during the mid and late 80's. Notice that country made its comeback in the early 90's--right around the time that MTV scaled way back on the number of videos they were airing. Coincidence? I am guessing not entirely... |
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Post by mkarns on Aug 31, 2012 11:34:41 GMT -5
I don't believe so. Eddie Rabbitt's " Step By Step" was one of the first, if not THE first, to be played on MTV back in the fall of 1981. And Ronnie Milsap had several videos in 1982-1983, including " Any Day Now" and " Stranger in My House," that saw airplay on MTV. Additionally, I believe at least two videos by Moe Bandy and Joe Stampley ��" Where's the Dress" and " Boys Night Out" ��have seen airplay on MTV. Moe and Joe? Yep, two artists known for traditional honky-tonk country ballads (as solo artists) and then their corny comedy tunes (as duets). Amazingly, between them � both solo and duet songs � only Joe's " Soul Song" from 1973 made the Hot 100's top 40. Brian I watched fairly regularly back in the early days of MTV, and I believe you are correct regarding the Eddie Rabbit song--I do recall seeing that video (and maybe another of his) on MTV during that first year. However, there is no way that artists like Joe Stampley and Moe Brandy would have ever seen airtime on MTV. Keep in mind that MTV started out with more of an album rock and AC format, which is why there was so much Styx, REO Speedwagon, Cliff Richard, Rod Stewart, etc, during the early days. They ultimately broadened to add new wave and disco/dance music, but Eddie Rabbit fit into that early format enough to get some airplay. The point is, most of MTV's music was pretty mainstream, especially at first. Joe Stampley and Moe Brandy had no place on MTV early on, as there were no straight ahead country songs (only crossovers that were almost more rock/pop than country). Maybe you saw these on the Nashville Network (TNN--remember that channel)? They played country videos from pretty early on. And maybe this sheds light on MTV's influence on pushing country music out of the mainstream during the mid and late 80's. Notice that country made its comeback in the early 90's--right around the time that MTV scaled way back on the number of videos they were airing. Coincidence? I am guessing not entirely... On MTV's first day, Juice Newton's "Angel of the Morning" was played. Not sure that really counts as country, since it was a bigger pop than country hit, but she was and is viewed as a country and pop artist (more pop then) so it's worth mentioning. "Where's the Dress?" might have been aired on occasion as a sort of novelty, since it made fun of Boy George and Culture Club. |
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Post by pb on Aug 31, 2012 13:20:47 GMT -5
I remember Juice Newton's "Love's Been A Little Bit Hard On Me" video showing "love" getting her pushed off a cliff and such, but that was also not exactly country.
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Post by matt on Aug 31, 2012 13:42:38 GMT -5
I watched fairly regularly back in the early days of MTV, and I believe you are correct regarding the Eddie Rabbit song--I do recall seeing that video (and maybe another of his) on MTV during that first year. However, there is no way that artists like Joe Stampley and Moe Brandy would have ever seen airtime on MTV. Keep in mind that MTV started out with more of an album rock and AC format, which is why there was so much Styx, REO Speedwagon, Cliff Richard, Rod Stewart, etc, during the early days. They ultimately broadened to add new wave and disco/dance music, but Eddie Rabbit fit into that early format enough to get some airplay. The point is, most of MTV's music was pretty mainstream, especially at first. Joe Stampley and Moe Brandy had no place on MTV early on, as there were no straight ahead country songs (only crossovers that were almost more rock/pop than country). Maybe you saw these on the Nashville Network (TNN--remember that channel)? They played country videos from pretty early on. And maybe this sheds light on MTV's influence on pushing country music out of the mainstream during the mid and late 80's. Notice that country made its comeback in the early 90's--right around the time that MTV scaled way back on the number of videos they were airing. Coincidence? I am guessing not entirely... On MTV's first day, Juice Newton's "Angel of the Morning" was played. Not sure that really counts as country, since it was a bigger pop than country hit, but she was and is viewed as a country and pop artist (more pop then) so it's worth mentioning. "Where's the Dress?" might have been aired on occasion as a sort of novelty, since it made fun of Boy George and Culture Club. Oh right--you may be right about "Where's the Dress?" If so, I stand corrected. As for Juice, now that you say it, I do remember the videos for "Queen of Hearts" and "Love's Been a Little Bit Hard On Me" getting some airplay...but as you say, both were almost as much pop as country. Which begs another question about country's late 80s disappearance: was country just enough more twangy in general compared to pop in the late 80s? Were there just not enough pop friendly songs during that time? |
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jebsib
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jebsib on Aug 31, 2012 13:47:04 GMT -5
Come to think of it - I'm not a big expert on AT40 during the 1970s - but from 1976 - 1979 was there a big Country showing on the pop charts? I can think of odd songs by Dolly Parton or Charlie Daniels, but post-John Denver, wasn't it fairly bleak for Nashville??
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Post by mkarns on Aug 31, 2012 13:55:47 GMT -5
Come to think of it - I'm not a big expert on AT40 during the 1970s - but from 1976 - 1979 was there a big Country showing on the pop charts? I can think of odd songs by Dolly Parton or Charlie Daniels, but post-John Denver, wasn't it fairly bleak for Nashville?? There were a decent number of country hits that became pop hits during that time, by artists such as Kenny Rogers, Crystal Gayle, Anne Murray, Eddie Rabbitt, Glen Campbell, and Ronnie Milsap. Most of the country hits that made AT40, though, had arrangements and production that clearly sounded more pop than country. |
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