jebsib
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jebsib on Aug 31, 2012 17:27:35 GMT -5
Okay, good. So it REALLY was the "Post-1983" era. Weird.
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Post by blackbowl68 on Aug 31, 2012 18:07:00 GMT -5
First off, jebsib, welcome to the board. Second, I was listening to AT40 since late 1979 so I know what you're saying. However, I don't think MTV was the sole reason for country's crossover hiatus from 1985 to 1992. Let me offer up some other possibilities: - Country was the biggest beneficiary of the disco backlash of 1979. That's why so many more crossed over than usual between 1980 to 1982. - During this time, the big powerhouse centers (NYC & LA) did not have strong Top 40 stations. The transition of the format from AM to FM may have also been a contributing factor. - By 1984, most of the country crossovers were slow ballads that were also getting AC airplay. To regular Top 40 listeners, this was sounding like modern day elevator music. - Both country & AC were becoming artist-oriented radio formats. These stations would promote records based more on name recognition rather than consumer interest. This helped sell concert tickets and albums, but had little to do with single sales. - Compared to Top 40 at the time, most country artists rarely use synthesizers or any modern technology of the day on their recordings, which makes them sound like "relics of a bygone era of music." - Since AC was aggressively supporting many of these country artists, Top 40 didn't find these country songs to be very cohesive to their format. So they simply shied away from them. Conversely, country A&R departments may have also simply stopped servicing their records to Top 40 itself. - It also doesn't help the two of the biggest fans of country music at that time were our then-president and vice president.
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Post by bandit73 on Aug 31, 2012 20:13:14 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure "Mandolin Rain" made the country chart.
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Post by marv101 on Aug 31, 2012 22:53:20 GMT -5
The 40 radio listening audience in LA in the late seventies was split among FIVE different radio stations.
The format was reinvented here in 1981 at KIIS-FM under PD Gerry DeFrancesco and Rick Dees in morning drive, and its unabashed success engineered a huge surge in popularity nationwide has their ratings soared to a 10.0 in the fall of 1984, the best ratings the format in the nation's most closely watched and top billing market since the 1960 boom years.
They remained #1 for another 2 1/2 years until Emmis's CHR/Rhythmic KPWR (aka Power 106) went from nonexistent to #1 in less than nine months in the spring of 1987;
That stunning episode resulted in a massive bailout from top 40 radio which started over the course of the next two years, which led to the 1990s becoming a 'lost decade' for the format as adults and their kids fled to the safety of country, AC, Hot AC, the nascent 'Smmoth Jazz' format (KTWV/LA was launched on Valentine's Day in 1987), as well as Oldies.
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Post by doomsdaymachine on Sept 1, 2012 1:13:08 GMT -5
After the "Urban Cowboy" era, and "Islands in the Stream", there was a huge and unprecedented shut-out of ANY country single from the top 40 chart. Much had to do with country retail singles being phased out, and a lot seemed to do with the perceived lack of coolness factor of mid '80s country output. In fact until a minor blip (Restless Heart (#33) in 1987), there seemed not to be any c&w entries in the top 40 until 1992's "Achy Breaky Heart". My big question is : Does anyone know the last definitive country song to chart on AT40 before the freeze? Was it something like Kenny Rogers' "What About Me" (a pop song that performed poorly (#70) on the country charts, and featured Rocker Kim Carnes with r&b crooner, James Ingram)? Or was there something more obscure that just grazed the survey? Any one know? And my question is this: Why is it usually the worst pieces of garbage that cross over from the Country to the Pop chart?
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Post by reachinforthestars on Sept 1, 2012 2:22:41 GMT -5
(Incidentally, Richie's " Deep River Woman" (with Alabama on backing vocals) from early 1987 was a No. 10 hit on the pop chart) Brian It was a No. 10 hit on the country chart, not the pop chart. The song would get another life on the country chart. Yep, earlier this year with his updated recording of the song from the Tuskegee album. This time with Little Big Town.
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Post by SFGuy on Sept 1, 2012 2:28:47 GMT -5
(Incidentally, Richie's " Deep River Woman" (with Alabama on backing vocals) from early 1987 was a No. 10 hit on the pop chart) Brian It was a No. 10 hit on the country chart, not the pop chart. Adding to this, it hit No. 71 on the pop charts (peaking February 14, 1987).
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jebsib
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jebsib on Sept 1, 2012 8:33:47 GMT -5
Great analysis from blackbowl and marv - thanks.
Truly, country has never fully recovered to a pop radio audience; It 'appears' to have on the Hot 100 over the last 20 years due to its current methodology (sales, streaming and country station airplay), but outside of very random and infrequent songs (Leann Rimes, Lonestar, Shania, Taylor Swift), Country content has accounted for a tiny and inconsistent presence on CHR since the late 90s.
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Post by mct1 on Sept 8, 2012 23:32:49 GMT -5
Lionel Richie's "Deep River Woman" (featuring Alabama) is another example of the "promote one side of a single to one market, the flip side to another" phenomenon noted upthread. "Deep River Woman" was on the same single as Richie's Top 10 Pop hit "Ballerina Girl". "Ballerina Girl" was promoted to the pop and R&B markets, "Deep River Woman" to country. I assume that the success of "Stuck On You" at country radio encouraged him to take another stab at it with his next album, this time with a song that was more dedicated to that market.
sfguy noted that "Deep River Woman" did hit the Hot 100, peaking at #71. From UMD, it looks likes Billboard listed the two sides separately on the Hot 100 at the same time. Wikipedia shows both sides reaching the AC Top 40, with "Ballerina Girl" peaking at #1, "Deep River Woman" #28.
This week's '80s show (9/10/1983) was the week "Islands In The Stream" debuted on the Top 40 -- so this was shortly before the great dry spell began. Scanning the chart, I only see one other song by a country artist, "Tell Her No" by Juice Newton. This was another case of "promote one side of a single to one market, the flip side to another". Country radio got the song on the other side of the single, "Stranger At My Door", but it was a flop by Newton's standards, only hitting #45 on the country chart (and it was the only song from her Dirty Looks album to make the country chart at all). I hadn't heard "Tell Her No" in years, but I was struck that it isn't a very country-sounding song at all.
After this album, Newton jumped from Capitol to RCA. Her first RCA album, 1984's Can't Wait All Night, didn't do particularly well with either market. It was her last album to produce any Hot 100 (though not Top 40) singles, and her last to make the Billboard 200 album chart. Her next album, Old Flame, was a major comeback on the country chart, producing several big country hits in 1985-86, but made no impact on the pop charts at all. She wasn't able to sustain this success on the country side, really having only one big country hit after that, and completely disappearing from the country Top 40 by the end of the decade.
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Post by mct1 on Sept 8, 2012 23:37:46 GMT -5
Truly, country has never fully recovered to a pop radio audience; It 'appears' to have on the Hot 100 over the last 20 years due to its current methodology (sales, streaming and country station airplay), but outside of very random and infrequent songs (Leann Rimes, Lonestar, Shania, Taylor Swift), Country content has accounted for a tiny and inconsistent presence on CHR since the late 90s. I think this is very true. Country has probably never had as broad an audience as it has had over the past 20 years, but this has been more a matter of country siphoning off fans from a shrinking, splintering pop market than of country infiltrating (what's left of) the pop market.
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Post by marv101 on Sept 9, 2012 0:26:43 GMT -5
Top 40 radio just isn't as big as it was back in the eighties.
As I've pointed out before, all 235 of the R&R top 40 panel members, as well as 100+ rock, AC & country stations, added 'We Are The World' immediately when it was released in March of 1985, and the top 40 panel size barely moved for another 3-4 years.
Granted, true country music hasn't flourished at top 40 radio since the early-to-mid eighties, but we all know that.
Country titans and legends of the eighties such as Kenny Rogers, Ronnie Milsap, Alabama, Dolly Parton and the late Eddie Rabbitt all collectively run circles around current pop-country impostors such as Lady Antebellum & Taylor Swift.
DoomsdayMachine's assertion that a huge chunk of today's country music is 'garbage' vs. the 80s product personified by the artists I've mentioned is absolutely spot-on.
It was 44 years ago this month that 'Harper Valley PTA' took the biggest jump in the history of the Hot 100 (84-7), and would have been #1 for anywhere from 4-6 weeks if it hadn't been for the ridiculously humungous 'Hey Jude'.
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jebsib
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jebsib on Sept 9, 2012 22:31:58 GMT -5
Another element that I hadn't really considered until now is that by the mid 80s, Top 40 sort of had "their own country songs", with rustic rock songs by artists such as John Mellencamp, Henry Lee Summer & to a certain extent, even Bob Seger. Earthy, often blues-tinged rockers that filled the missing country gap, but still created dynamic balance on dance / r&b and pop-metal soaked playlists. Perhaps if such acts did not exist, CHR stations would have embraced a bit more from Nashville during those years...?
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Post by davewollenberg on Feb 9, 2014 18:17:13 GMT -5
Brian, 'Baby, I lied' hit #26 pop.
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Post by mkarns on Feb 9, 2014 21:18:25 GMT -5
This week's '80s show (9/10/1983) was the week "Islands In The Stream" debuted on the Top 40 -- so this was shortly before the great dry spell began. Scanning the chart, I only see one other song by a country artist, "Tell Her No" by Juice Newton. This was another case of "promote one side of a single to one market, the flip side to another". Country radio got the song on the other side of the single, "Stranger At My Door", but it was a flop by Newton's standards, only hitting #45 on the country chart (and it was the only song from her Dirty Looks album to make the country chart at all). I hadn't heard "Tell Her No" in years, but I was struck that it isn't a very country-sounding song at all. After this album, Newton jumped from Capitol to RCA. Her first RCA album, 1984's Can't Wait All Night, didn't do particularly well with either market. It was her last album to produce any Hot 100 (though not Top 40) singles, and her last to make the Billboard 200 album chart. Her next album, Old Flame, was a major comeback on the country chart, producing several big country hits in 1985-86, but made no impact on the pop charts at all. She wasn't able to sustain this success on the country side, really having only one big country hit after that, and completely disappearing from the country Top 40 by the end of the decade. If the title track to Can't Wait All Night had been released even one year earlier, I think it would have been a top tenner. This shows how much music tastes changed between summer of 83 and 84. Perhaps, though it's not even remotely country (it's a power-chord rocker co-written by Bryan Adams.) I think the Old Flame album would have hit the Billboard 200 somewhere if the chart methodology used since 1991 were in effect in the 1980s. Back then, especially in the later 80s, they tended to underestimate the sales of country music, and six country top 10 singles suggests it must have had some sales potency.
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Post by marv101 on Feb 9, 2014 23:57:51 GMT -5
^^^Which is why tons of heavyweights in the country radio industry were absolutely DELIRIOUS when Soundscan came along in 1991, and numerous country execs stated in both R&R & Billboard back then that country music CD sales had been severely underestimated and/or under-reported prior to its inception.
Soundscan turned out to be a godsend for country radio and the country music industry in general in 1992 when 'Achy Breaky Heart' exploded, BRC's 'Some Gave All' CD spent 17 weeks at #1 atop the BB 200, and the country format became the most-listened to format in the nation a mere three years after the 'country boom' which erupted in 1989 thanks primarily to Billboard's top 3 new singles artists of that year in Clint Black, Garth Brooks & Lorrie Morgan.
Simultaneously top 40 radio was imploding as tons of former top 40 powerhouses either evolved into Hot AC mainstays starting with Indy's WZPL and WNCI/Columbus among many others, or simply flipped; toss in three Hot AC stations which became nationally respected and influential format powerhouses very quickly (Star 98.7 here in LA, Star 100.7/San Diego and Houston's 'Mix 96'--KHMX, whose airstaff included Larry Morgan, who starts a week from tomorrow in morning drive at LA's Go Country 105), and the nineties turned out to be great for Country, AC and Hot AC stations nationwide, and all at the expense of top 40 radio, which lost 110+ stations from R&Rs panel of reporters between 1988 & 2003.
To this day I have no idea why 'Islands In The Stream' was the last true country single to hit #1 at top 40 radio, but like the old Tracy Lawrence classic from 1996 declared, 'Time Marches On', right?
The dizzying and very wide variety within the consensus top 5 top 40 singles of 1983 (Every Breath You Take/Billie Jean/Flashdance/Maneater/Total Eclipse Of The Heart) certainly proved why top 40 radio was the hottest format in existence back then, and certainly proved why the AC-heavy schlock which buried the format at the start of every decade (1980 & 1981 being no exception as consultants such as Guy Zapoleon & Alan Burns pointed out, just as they would in 1990 when the format did the same thing as it had done in 1970 as well) were long-gone, certainly thanks to back-to-back flame-throwing rock charttoppers from the J. Geils Band & Joan Jett & The Blackhearts in 1982.
To this day I don't consider 'Islands In The Stream' to be a schlocky record by any means anymore than I would have early 1980s country/AC/Top 40 smashes from the likes of Eddie Rabbit, Kenny Rogers, Ronnie Milsap or Alabama, but with the onslaught of alternative-leaning product showing up at top 40 radio in 1984 including tunes such as 'Sledgehammer' and 'It's My Life', it's possible that country music was merely 'squeezed out' of top 40 radio by that time, for whatever reason.
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