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Post by adam31 on Jul 25, 2019 13:05:35 GMT -5
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Post by mkarns on Jul 25, 2019 13:36:11 GMT -5
I don't think it's at all ridiculous to count streaming given what a big part of the music business it's become. I do sometimes wonder if they're overweighting it.
And streams, online views, etc., should probably only apply to actual listens to the songs. Not memes, clips that have something else going on with the song in the background, small samples of the song, etc. Remember when such memeification turned "Harlem Shake" into supposedly the most popular song in the country for weeks? Whatever you think of "Old Town Road", it's at least an actual song that made a significant impact at pop radio (and other formats).
As for the Hot 100, I generally don't take it that seriously post-1991, with its frequent changes in methodology and sometimes questionable rules.
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Post by doofus67 on Jul 25, 2019 15:43:30 GMT -5
The Hot 100 simply can't be what it used to be. As the music business has evolved, so have the charts. That's been the story since the 30s and 40s when the charts began.
This is just one guy's opinion, but I'm not crazy about most of the changes that have taken place in the music business over the last 25 to 30 years. In fact, I don't even listen to music from that period unless it's country.
Nevertheless, it's Billboard's job to present a chart that accurately reflects any and all of those changes at any given time. More often than not, Billboard has fallen short of fulfilling that promise.
You have to admit the chart can't be the way it was during, for instance, Casey's first run of AT40. A lot of us miss that, don't we?
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Post by OnWithTheCountdown on Jul 25, 2019 21:59:29 GMT -5
The Hot 100 simply can't be what it used to be. As the music business has evolved, so have the charts. That's been the story since the 30s and 40s when the charts began. This is just one guy's opinion, but I'm not crazy about most of the changes that have taken place in the music business over the last 25 to 30 years. In fact, I don't even listen to music from that period uness it's country. Nevertheless, it's Billboard's job to present a chart that accurately reflects any and all of those changes at any given time. More often than not, Billboard has fallen short of fulfilling that promise. You have to admit the chart can't be the way it was during, for instance, Casey's first run of AT40. A lot of us miss that, don't we? Yep, I most certainly do. I've been more of an R&R follower even during 1991, prior to the switch from the Hot 100. A little tidbit: Beginning with the 3/30/1991 show, Casey Kasem states during the Casey's Top 40 show open that the survey is conducted by Radio & Records, the industry's number one newspaper. So, something was stirring several months before AT40 abandoned the Hot 100. I don't know, but I find it fascinating. |
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Post by djjoe1960 on Jul 26, 2019 7:22:27 GMT -5
The Hot 100 simply can't be what it used to be. As the music business has evolved, so have the charts. That's been the story since the 30s and 40s when the charts began. This is just one guy's opinion, but I'm not crazy about most of the changes that have taken place in the music business over the last 25 to 30 years. In fact, I don't even listen to music from that period uness it's country. Nevertheless, it's Billboard's job to present a chart that accurately reflects any and all of those changes at any given time. More often than not, Billboard has fallen short of fulfilling that promise. You have to admit the chart can't be the way it was during, for instance, Casey's first run of AT40. A lot of us miss that, don't we? Yep, I most certainly do. I've been more of an R&R follower even during 1991, prior to the switch from the Hot 100. A little tidbit: Beginning with the 3/30/1991 show, Casey Kasem states during the Casey's Top 40 show open that the survey is conducted by Radio & Records, the industry's number one newspaper. So, something was stirring several months before AT40 abandoned the Hot 100. I don't know, but I find it fascinating. When I worked in radio from 1979 through the early '90's, most stations preferred the Radio & Records charts since they more accurately followed what RADIO was playing at the time. I remember when Upside Down by Diana Ross jumped from #49 to #10 on the Billboard Hot 100 in August 1980, I was interviewing at a station and we were all totally surprised that a song that was just getting airplay on pop/Top 40 would make that kind of move on the Billboard chart--however, the music director reminded me that most stations followed the airplay charts of R & Rl; and not Billboard. I do recall that most of the stations that I worked at used R & R , even though, as an AT40 fan before getting into the business--I thought Billboard was the most accurate chart. Oh and just for comparison purposes Upside Down zoomed to #10 the week ending August 9, 1980--it was #40 in Record World, #32 in Cash Box and wouldn't debut into the R & R Top 30 until the following week.
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Post by adam31 on Jul 26, 2019 7:39:36 GMT -5
I don't think it's at all ridiculous to count streaming given what a big part of the music business it's become. I do sometimes wonder if they're overweighting it. And streams, online views, etc., should probably only apply to actual listens to the songs. Not memes, clips that have something else going on with the song in the background, small samples of the song, etc. Remember when such memeification turned "Harlem Shake" into supposedly the most popular song in the country for weeks? Whatever you think of "Old Town Road", it's at least an actual song that made a significant impact at pop radio (and other formats). As for the Hot 100, I generally don't take it that seriously post-1991, with its frequent changes in methodology and sometimes questionable rules. I agree with you here, the streaming is probably not weighed correctly. As you say, memes, clips, Facebook postings, even YouTube should be taken out of the equation and only paid streaming should be counted, maybe this would get the Hot 100 more accurate. There needs to be some responsbility of "owning" the song, as in the older days when tabulation was based on record sales and radio airplay. In this instance, the song would prove its popularity by someone buying it, (digital or otherwise), choosing to stream it, or Program/Music Directors placing it on their playlist. Of course, even during AT40's era of using the Hot 100, occasionally a discrepancy would occur where a song that sold a lot of copies but was never played on the radio would rank high on the chart (Rap and metal especially, mainly 1989-1991). Back to djjoes comment of R&R, The stations I worked at in the 80s and 90s also used R&R to help determine their playlist. I never even seen a Billboard Magazine in those days, unless it was the Hot 100 page ripped out and framed at the local record store. but as he says, being a fan of AT40, I felt Billboard was the most accurate and respected. |
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Post by Michael1973 on Jul 26, 2019 11:04:45 GMT -5
While I agree that streaming should factor into the charts, I think the way it's currently handled is absurd. I'm not sure exactly how it should be handled, but I feel like the charts should represent what is currently popular. By including everything that gets streamed, any random song from any era is now eligible to hit the charts, which happens often. This also leads to all sorts of chart records getting broken, when the original record was set under far different circumstances.
Think about it like this. If you wanted to know what was popular among the general public this week 40 years ago, you'd look at the pop chart and you'd know. If somebody in 2059 wants to know what was popular today and looks at a 2019 chart, they wouldn't have a clue.
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Post by mkarns on Jul 26, 2019 23:20:27 GMT -5
While I agree that streaming should factor into the charts, I think the way it's currently handled is absurd. I'm not sure exactly how it should be handled, but I feel like the charts should represent what is currently popular. By including everything that gets streamed, any random song from any era is now eligible to hit the charts, which happens often. This also leads to all sorts of chart records getting broken, when the original record was set under far different circumstances. Think about it like this. If you wanted to know what was popular among the general public this week 40 years ago, you'd look at the pop chart and you'd know. If somebody in 2059 wants to know what was popular today and looks at a 2019 chart, they wouldn't have a clue. There have been times when old songs have randomly recharted for whatever reason, and, somewhat more predictably, late each year a bunch of old Christmas songs rechart under current Hot 100 rules. For a chart longevity statistic, Bing Crosby first started charting in the 1920s as a band vocalist and in 1931 as a solo artist, and his run of chart appearances continues to 2018-19, and probably later, due to "White Christmas" reappearing. |
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Post by JMW on Jul 29, 2019 14:34:08 GMT -5
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Post by djjoe1960 on Jul 29, 2019 18:09:55 GMT -5
I heard a story about this on NPR and they hinted that other remixes (and versions) of the song may get counted as part of the streaming. If so, the Hot 100 may have reverted back to the way Cash Box and Music Vendor/Record World figured their charts from the 1940's-1960's; where all versions of a song where dumped into one chart position (regardless of the artist). t would be interesting to know if that is the situation with 'Old Town Road'.
One other thing I wonder about streaming--how do we know that the views on youtube, aren't just a few people listening to the song multiple times; instead of multiple people listening just once or twice--which would have been the way people would have been counted when they actually had to buy or download a song? Hmmm.  |
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Post by adam31 on Aug 13, 2019 8:59:44 GMT -5
Well, it's at 19 weeks on top now, and all 19 weeks it has lead streaming....hmmm Another interesting feat is also about to be topped, most weeks in the #2 position on the Hot 100. I'm sure we all remember the battle played out on AT40 in late 1981 through early 1982, when "Physical" by Olivia Newton-John led for 10 weeks and "Waiting For A Girl Like You" by Foreigner was held at #2 for 10 weeks by that song and Hall & Oates' "I Can't Go For That". I remember being glued to the radio and couldn't wait to see who came out on top and what records would be broken. Now, Billie Eilish's "Bad Guy" notches a ninth total week at its No. 2. From Billboard: "Below "Road" the entire time that it has ranked at No. 2 on the Hot 100, "Bad Guy" is (as of now) just the fifth non-No. 1 in the chart's history to peak at the runner-up spot for at least nine weeks, and is a week from potentially tying for the most time peaking at No. 2. Here's a recap of the No. 2 hits to spend the most time at their highpoints: Weeks Peaking at No. 2, Title, Artist, Peak Date 10, "Work It," Missy "Misdemeanor" Elliott, Nov. 16, 2002 10, "Waiting for a Girl Like You," Foreigner, Nov. 28, 1981 9, "Bad Guy," Billie Eilish, June 8, 2019 9, "You're Still the One," Shania Twain, May 2, 1998 9, "I Love You Always Forever," Donna Lewis, Aug. 4, 1996" Credit: www.billboard.com/articles/business/chart-beat/8527171/lil-nas-x-old-town-road-number-one-hot-100-19-weeks |
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Post by mkarns on Aug 19, 2019 18:20:20 GMT -5
And Billie Eilish finally dislodges "Old Town Road" this week, with "Bad Guy" (which also hit #1 on AT40 last week.) This comes after "Bad Guy" spent 9 weeks at #2, the longest such wait ever for a Hot 100 song that finally made it to the top--a record that would have been set in January 1982 if Hall & Oates ("I Can't Go For That") hadn't jumped over Foreigner ("Waiting For a Girl Like You"). www.billboard.com/articles/business/chart-beat/8527749/billie-eilish-bad-guy-number-one-hot-100 |
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Post by DJ Particle on Aug 20, 2019 4:18:45 GMT -5
I think part of why "Old Town Road" stayed so long at #1 was just because Lil Nas X kept himself in the spotlight for a long time simply by coming out. After that, whole new swaths of the listening audience checked to see what the buzz was about, which caused more people to stream the song, which caused more sales of the song (remember, Hot 100 also adds sales figures, whereas AT40/Mediabase does not).
That's in addition to the fact that the song is catchy as hell, and I can see why the kids are going for it. I dare say it will be THE #1 song of 2019 both on Hot 100 and AT40 (hell, maybe even the #1 song of the 2010s!). I know a lot here may not like it, but face it, we're not the target audience for pop music anymore.
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Post by adam31 on Jan 28, 2021 8:45:55 GMT -5
This year's Super Bowl halftime entertainment The Weeknd is STILL in the Top 5 at #4 with "Blinding Lights". He extends his record in the Top 5 to 37 weeks and the Top 10 to 46!
Now been on the Hot 100 for 59 weeks! I looked that record also and thought it was close but it's not. "Radioactive" from Imagine Dragons had 87 weeks in 2014.
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Post by dukelightning on Jan 28, 2021 20:38:33 GMT -5
It's still getting a lot of airplay on my local CHR station. Is this the first time that the act with the #1 song of the year on AT40 will be performing the Super Bowl halftime show? (Btw, the Super Bowl is considered part of the 2020 football season).
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