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Post by mrjukebox on Nov 4, 2012 17:35:21 GMT -5
"(Just Like) Starting Over" would've gone right to #1 whether John Lennon had been murdered or not.
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Post by Mike on Nov 4, 2012 21:37:46 GMT -5
As I have stated previously, the chart date corresponds with data from 2 weeks prior to that date. So on the chart of 12/20, when "Staring Over" was at #3, it corresponds with chart data through 12/6 or 12/7. It held a star that week. The following week would therefore be the first week reflecting airplay and sales after his death. On that week, "More Than I Can Say" held at #2 but lost its star. So Lennon's song would have hit #1 the same week regardless. I do think that his stay on top would have been shorter than 5 weeks allowing "Love on the Rocks" to hit #1. Ironically, these songs debuted on the Hot 100 in the top 40 the same week as heard on this week's show. Given this information, I tend to agree that Leo would have fallen short of #1 regardless of Lennon's murder. It's Neil that I'm not totally sure about, though I suppose it's possible. Over on R&R, Neil was able to get into the penthouse before Lennon. Had this happened and Neil then sent Lennon packing on the Hot 100, it would have, effectively, created a reversal of fortune between the two charts. To the best of my knowledge - someone please correct me if I'm wrong - only one time did a song that dethroned another on the Hot 100, have the opposite happen on R&R: In 1990, James Ingram's "I Don't Have the Heart" lost the top spot to Janet's "Black Cat", while over on R&R, the reverse happened. So I'm not too sure that Neil would have hit the top on R&R and been dethroned by Lennon on that chart, only to dethrone Lennon on the Hot 100. Unless, of course, Neil would have been able to keep Lennon out altogether on R&R had Lennon lived. |
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Post by pamelajaye on Nov 4, 2012 23:29:22 GMT -5
(Warning: Thread creep!) Speaking of "(Just Like) Starting Over", as a commercial aviation expert and enthusiast, I've always tried to make out the flight announcement at the end of the song. I can make out what I think is "(unintelligible)Airlines, Flight 12, (unintelligible)service to Las Vegas", but have never been able to ID the airline name at the start of the announcement. I think that the carrier name and the trademarked service name were probably intentionally garbled in the studio. If the announcement is real it could not have been recorded at an NYC-area airport, as Flight 12 (even number) indicates an eastbound flight. Maybe recorded at LAX, who knows. I know, I need a life... I don't usually notice flight numbers but because of what you just said, Aside from my flight to FL, my last flights from Boston to LA were, unless I mixed them, AA11 and United 175 (noticed as return was 176). If I got those right, they should sound familiar. One was Oct 2000 and the next/last was Feb 2001. And you think you need a life... I did toss one of those ticket stubs, then regretted it the next September (though I'm pretty sure my flights out were on Thursdays). |
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Post by lasvegaskid on Nov 4, 2012 23:42:39 GMT -5
IMO, "(Just Like) Starting Over" would not have gone to #1 if John Lennon hadn't been murdered, however just think of all the new music (Beatles?) we might have gotten if he was still alive.
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Post by mga707 on Nov 5, 2012 15:30:42 GMT -5
I don't usually notice flight numbers but because of what you just said, Aside from my flight to FL, my last flights from Boston to LA were, unless I mixed them, AA11 and United 175 (noticed as return was 176). If I got those right, they should sound familiar. One was Oct 2000 and the next/last was Feb 2001. And you think you need a life... I did toss one of those ticket stubs, then regretted it the next September (though I'm pretty sure my flights out were on Thursdays). Yes, they are the (in)famous flight numbers. I was flying on that morning, from Islip (Long Island/MacArthur Airport) to Baltimore on Southwest. I was gazing out the window at the remarkably clear view of lower Manhattan around 8AM. Landed at BWI between the time of the AA11 hit and the UA175 hit. Wound up having to rent a car (right before they were all snapped up) and driving the rest of the way back to Tucson. |
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Post by torcan on Nov 7, 2012 17:18:28 GMT -5
I think it would have hit No. 1, because people were anticipating the single after 5 years, and it was a pretty good song. Probably wouldn't have been No. 1 for five weeks though.
I'm surprised the follow-up "Woman" didn't hit No. 1. I thought for sure it would, but it go stuck at No. 2 for three weeks.
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Post by mkarns on Nov 7, 2012 17:20:02 GMT -5
I'm surprised the follow-up "Woman" didn't hit No. 1. I thought for sure it would, but it go stuck at No. 2 for three weeks. It was #1 for four weeks in Radio & Records. Perhaps its sales were hurt by most people buying the album ("Double Fantasy") instead. |
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Post by MrGeno502 on Nov 7, 2012 22:27:20 GMT -5
I'm a huge Beatles fan. Especially John Lennon. I don't think (Just Like) Starting Over would've hit # 1 if John wasn't murdered. One thing I remember is that when Double Fantasy was released, the Album Rock station here, WLRS, wouldn't play Starting Over because they said it wasn't "Rock" enough. But they would play I'm Losing You. After John died they started playing Starting Over on the station. I guess it was "Rock" enough after he died.
I think Woman would've still been the second single and I think it would have hit #1. Like it should have anyway!
For the third single I think it would have been I'm Losing You.
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Post by blackbowl68 on Nov 11, 2012 11:08:30 GMT -5
Ok, I got enough responses to this subject that I can reveal my conclusion. Here is what I think the #1 song on the Hot 100 would've been for each of the five/six weeks had John Lennon still been alive:
12/27/80: More Than I Can Say - Leo Sayer
1/03/81: More Than I Can Say - Leo Sayer (frozen week)
1/10/81: (Just Like) Starting Over - John Lennon
1/17/81: Love On the Rocks - Neil Diamond
1/24/81: The Tide Is High - Blondie
1/31/81: The Tide Is High - Blondie
Dukedeb is correct the chart week of 12/27 corresponds to the tracking week after his murder. However, the song had been in top 10 for more than a month when he died. If it was taking that long just to reach #3, I believe one of two things is plausible:
1) the song was barely meeting its star/bullet criteria once in the top 10.
2) the point spread between top 10 records at that time was likely very wide.
I believe the point spread between the Sayer and Lennon records was very wide for 12/20. If Lennon had still been alive, I do not believe his song would have gained enough points to overtake Sayer's record the following week. Because Lennon died during the Christmas rush when overall record sales spurts, Billboard may have had to increase the star criteria that week. So both records may have actually increased in points, with Lennon's single gaining slightly more.
With the "...Starting Over" having a 50s style production, it would only get a fraction the attention it actually got. This would likely prevent it from being an instant #1, as its slow progress up the top 10 was indicating.
I did believe the song would eventually reach #1, but only for one week. That is because I think January 1981 would have seen the #1 spot be a revolving door. Also at that time, Billboard always gave the #1 song a star, even if the record was losing points.
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Post by mstgator on Nov 14, 2012 20:29:41 GMT -5
Because Lennon died during the Christmas rush when overall record sales spurts, Billboard may have had to increase the star criteria that week. So both records may have actually increased in points, with Lennon's single gaining slightly more. Keep in mind that Billboard didn't track actual sales numbers back then, just ranked reports from record stores. So an overall increase in units sold due to the holidays wouldn't be reflected in chart points and thus wouldn't necessitate an adjustment to the star criteria. (Other than that, your reasoning is sound.)  |
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Post by woolebull on Dec 3, 2012 11:09:09 GMT -5
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that possibly two number ones would not have happened. "Medley" might not have been as big, which means Kim Carnes missed out on the momentous 10 weeks at number one.
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Post by blackbowl68 on Jan 11, 2013 18:29:22 GMT -5
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but it just dawned on me why the 1/10/81 AT40 show did not start with last week's top 3 recap. Apparently, it looks like they didn't want to play "(Just Like) Starting Over" within the first 15 minutes of the show, and possibly as far as AT40 canon goes, the song hadn't reached #1 yet.
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Post by dukelightning on Jan 11, 2013 19:08:59 GMT -5
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but it just dawned on me why the 1/10/81 AT40 show did not start with last week's top 3 recap. Apparently, it looks like they didn't want to play "(Just Like) Starting Over" within the first 15 minutes of the show, and possibly as far as AT40 canon goes, the song hadn't reached #1 yet. This is true and turns out to be a unique situation with regard to the first show of the year when they were doing a recap. It is the only time that the #1 song on the first show of the year actually hit #1 during the time when they were doing the year end special(s). And so you had the suspense factor. In 1980, the first show was on 1/12 and it made sense for them to do the top 3 recap of the previous week because there had been a change at #1 that week with "Please Don't Go" replacing "Escape" at #1. So the recap set the stage for the latter replacing the former on that show. In 1982, 83, 84, 85, 86 and 87, the #1 song on the first show was already #1 on the last show of the previous year. The only other year that the #1 song of the previous year was played instead of the #1 song of the previous week was on the first show of 1988 (1/9) when they played "Walk Like an Egyptian". There was a new #1 song that week as "So Emotional" replaced "Faith" but that is not the same as what happened with "Starting Over" in 1980-81. |
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Post by dukelightning on Dec 9, 2013 22:04:29 GMT -5
On this week's AT40: the 80's show, John Lennon debuted with his first chart single in five years, "(Just Like) Starting Over." This song was surging up the chart when the unthinkable happened on December 8th: John was shot and killed by a crazed fan outside his Manhattan home. As a result, "(Just Like) Starting Over" become #1 the very next tracking week, staying on top for 5 weeks. (In England, "Imagine" was also re-issued and also hit #1 there.) These are the facts Because this Saturday is Daylight Savings Time in the US, I am posing this big WHAT IF question: How would "(Just Like) Starting Over" have done on the Billboard charts had Lennon still been alive to watch it run its course?I have my educated guesses on this, but I'd like to hear from others. Bumping up because of the post of 10 minutes ago.. |
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Post by jmack19 on Jul 7, 2014 14:15:39 GMT -5
In a 10-year period from 1971 thru 1980, there was 13 songs that moved 20 or more positions into the Top 10 & every single was a #1 hit. These were:
One Bad Apple Theme From Shaft You're So Vain Kung Fu Fighting You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds The Hustle Island Girl Le Freak Still No More Tears
Upside Down Starting Over
Compare chart runs of the 2 songs with a 22-spot move:
Van McCoy 29- 7-6-2-2-2-1
John Lennon 32-10-9-8-6-4-3-1
Given that Do That To Me One More Time hit #1 in its 11th week in the Top 10 earlier in 1980, it would have been a surprise that Lennon's song had not spent a week at the top.
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