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Post by lasvegaskid on Dec 7, 2017 14:04:46 GMT -5
He was #2 on ACC this past weekend. I doubt if any move from 2 to 1 can be attributed to chart manipulations. But stranger things have happened. Just wait until next week when the spins just as mysteriously plummet. |
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Post by dukelightning on Dec 16, 2017 15:32:33 GMT -5
I waited and I see what you mean. Garth drops all the way to #10. Could this be the biggest drop from #1 on ACC and/or the Billboard country chart in the monitored era?
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Post by dth1971 on Dec 17, 2017 8:53:11 GMT -5
In a question letter to Casey on 12/13/1975 Casey mentioned 3 female acts who may be in the running for most top 40 hits - Roberta Flack, Cher, and Helen Reddy. Flack and Reddy would still hit the top 40 in 1976, but Cher didn't have another top 40 hit until 1979 with "Take Me Home".
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Post by 80sat40fan on Dec 17, 2017 11:01:16 GMT -5
There has been some great discussion here about the charts keeping a song out of the #1 spot or somehow seeing a song move into #1 that maybe shouldn't have. What about at the bottom of the Top 40 chart or just outside of it? I have always wondered if it is to a singer's or group's advantage to be heard at #40, or if it might be better to be at #41 and then be the highest debuting song on AT40 the next week.
Case in point... "You Give Love A Bad Name" by Bon Jovi. The song moved 93 - 83 - 68 - 47... and then moved up 6 notches to #41. The next week, it debuted at #29 on AT40, up 12 notches.
Now if a record debuts in its first week on the Hot 100 within the Top 40... that's different and something Casey would tout. However, if it didn't debut within the Top 40... might it be an advantage to be at #41 or #42 the week before, and then have a high debut on AT40 the next week? Given that only one song from early '81 through the summer of '85 which debuted on AT40 at #40 went on to #1 ("Total Eclipse Of The Heart" in '83)... I wonder if there may have been a little chart manipulation in that part of the chart from time to time.
Also interesting is how many songs would debut on the Hot 100 within the Top 40 at #40 or #39, but very few debuted on the Hot 100 at #41. "Wanna Be Startin' Somthin'" by Michael Jackson is one song that comes to mind... there may have been others but not that many.
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Post by lasvegaskid on Jan 25, 2018 0:01:44 GMT -5
I thought it was strange how PYT would jump 10-13 then reverse to #12 the following week and off the top 40 three weeks later. It's almost like Billboard knew the historical significance of getting MJ six top tenners from one album. Little did they know 6 and 7 single albums wouldn't be that rare for the rest of the decade.
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Post by doofus67 on Jan 25, 2018 16:23:37 GMT -5
I thought it was strange how PYT would jump 10-13 then reverse to #12 the following week and off the top 40 three weeks later. It's almost like Billboard knew the historical significance of getting MJ six top tenners from one album. Also, the record company may have decided to pull promotion on PYT a little early. The follow-up single was, well, kind of a big deal. It had a 14-minute video that was all filmed and ready to go.  |
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Post by djjoe1960 on Jan 26, 2018 18:42:38 GMT -5
I am not sure if this chart oddity has been raised somewhere before but I was listening to an AT 40 show from October 1974 when Casey noted that Lynyrd Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama peaked at #9, the week the song dropped to #19. Following that drop the song climbed back into the Top 10 and held at #8 for two weeks and then fell completely out of the Top 40 to #44.
I am wondering if there is any explanation for this odd chart movement?
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Post by OnWithTheCountdown on Jan 26, 2018 19:06:36 GMT -5
I am not sure if this chart oddity has been raised somewhere before but I was listening to an AT 40 show from October 1974 when Casey noted that Lynyrd Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama peaked at #9, the week the song dropped to #19. Following that drop the song climbed back into the Top 10 and held at #8 for two weeks and then fell completely out of the Top 40 to #44. I am wondering if there is any explanation for this odd chart movement? I noticed that also happened during the same time the two #1's by Billy Preston and Dionne Warwick & The Spinners plummeted to #15 out of the top spot. Strange movements indeed. Welcome to Billboard, Bill Wardlow. |
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Post by mga707 on Jan 26, 2018 20:09:28 GMT -5
I am not sure if this chart oddity has been raised somewhere before but I was listening to an AT 40 show from October 1974 when Casey noted that Lynyrd Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama peaked at #9, the week the song dropped to #19. Following that drop the song climbed back into the Top 10 and held at #8 for two weeks and then fell completely out of the Top 40 to #44. I am wondering if there is any explanation for this odd chart movement? I noticed that also happened during the same time the two #1's by Billy Preston and Dionne Warwick & The Spinners plummeted to #15 out of the top spot. Strange movements indeed. Welcome to Billboard, Bill Wardlow. It's no secret that (pre-SoundScan era, at least) the two most suspicious chart eras at "Billboard" were '74-'75 and '82-'83. But it's nothing new. I remember reading in Tommy James' book that Roulette Records head (and mobster) Morris Levy had a long-running vendetta against 'Billboard'. He was certain that the magazine had unfairly robbed TJ and the Shondells of two #1 chartings, "I Think We're Alone now" and "Mony, Mony". I guess with "Crimson and Clover" it could not be believably done a third time. Or maybe he 'made them an offer they couldn't refuse.' |
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Post by harrycareycubfan08 on Jan 28, 2018 0:51:11 GMT -5
The charts of that period were interesting, to say the least, but since the magazine is really geared towards industry insiders and radio more than anyone else, I wonder if any radio programmers or anybody complained to Billboard about the way the charts were compiled. It must have been disconcerting to radio programmers to see songs spend so long in one position, then drop off a cliff for no apparant reason. I wonder if people were starting to complain... Please remember that all companies' charts at the time were based on "reported" airplay and "reported" sales. No hard data. I am sure other people who worked in the industry in the pre-Soundscan/pre-BDS time period could concur with this following example: When I worked for WAMO in Pittsburgh as its music director from 1989 to 1992, once a song had peaked on the national chart and was "done" , tons of stations would report other titles while playing the peaked record the same or MORE than the one reported. Record company folks would actually say to continue to play the record, just report the new one. Or another title they were pushing. Very rarely would the top 40 songs played at a station match the 40 list they "reported". In the 1980s there were not 51 number one songs a year on the country chart. There were 51 songs which took their "turn" at number one. |
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Post by harrycareycubfan08 on Jan 28, 2018 0:58:22 GMT -5
Had Billboard magazine not implemented the new Country singles Chart rule in January of 1990, the "revolving door" at #1 would have definitely continued until 1999. There would be a new #1 song each week in 1990, 1992, and 1993, which means Alan Jackson, Garth Brooks, and Reba MCEntire would obviously have over 30 #1 Billboard Country singles to date. George Strait would have 50 #1 hits and Alabama would have had 40. I actually liked the idea of songs "taking turns to #1, like it is these days on Billboard Country Airplay charts and Mediabase. Only difference is almost every country song today sounds so hip hop and nothing close to neo-traditional.
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Post by OnWithTheCountdown on Jun 10, 2019 7:25:40 GMT -5
Bumping...found this on page 16!!!
This thread is a super good read. Very interesting stuff behind the chart dynamics of 1982 through April 1983, with the recent airing of 6/5/1982 stirring up discussion again. And not to mention a few other occurrences as well. Great topic.
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Post by JMW on Jun 10, 2019 13:52:54 GMT -5
I remember reading in Tommy James' book that Roulette Records head (and mobster) Morris Levy had a long-running vendetta against 'Billboard'. He was certain that the magazine had unfairly robbed TJ and the Shondells of two #1 chartings, "I Think We're Alone now" and "Mony, Mony". Funny how the remakes ended up hitting #1 (and back-to-back, no less). Also, not only were they #1 back-to-back: -they entered the Top 40 the same week (9/26/1987) -they entered the Top 10 the same week (10/24/1987) -they were back-to-back in the year-end countdown (Mony Mony at #19 and I Think We're Alone Now at #18). Coincidence? Or another chart manipulation? |
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Post by matt on Jun 10, 2019 15:38:24 GMT -5
I am not sure if this chart oddity has been raised somewhere before but I was listening to an AT 40 show from October 1974 when Casey noted that Lynyrd Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama peaked at #9, the week the song dropped to #19. Following that drop the song climbed back into the Top 10 and held at #8 for two weeks and then fell completely out of the Top 40 to #44. I am wondering if there is any explanation for this odd chart movement? "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" by BTO had the same thing happen in the latter half of 1974 -- dropped from #12 to #34, then jumped back to #8, then had a normal descent out of the 40. I'm guessing there's no way the actual chart data dictated that sort of thing happening. Starting the week of 11/2/74, that song's run went like this: 2-1-12-34-8-8-12-23-41. The three weeks immediately following the song's week at #1 are baffling, while the rest of its chart run is a pretty typical rise and fall. My guess is that there were either chart manipulations, some significant errors in the compilation of the chart, or maybe a little of both. |
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Post by 80sat40fan on Jun 10, 2019 19:15:51 GMT -5
"You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" by BTO had the same thing happen in the latter half of 1974 -- dropped from #12 to #34, then jumped back to #8, then had a normal descent out of the 40. I'm guessing there's no way the actual chart data dictated that sort of thing happening. Starting the week of 11/2/74, that song's run went like this: 2-1-12-34-8-8-12-23-41. The three weeks immediately following the song's week at #1 are baffling, while the rest of its chart run is a pretty typical rise and fall. My guess is that there were either chart manipulations, some significant errors in the compilation of the chart, or maybe a little of both. This one can be explained. The flip side to YASNY, "Free Wheelin'", started getting some airplay which resulted in sales of the single. I can't explain some of the other examples but Wikipedia references "Free Wheelin'" as a reason the single had a second wind. I don't know if this might be a chart manipulation but on this week's 6/17/78 countdown, there are ten songs between #20 and #34 which all move up six notches. Huh?!?! It doesn't make sense that songs like "Miss You", which would go on to hit #1, would move up the same number of notches as songs like "I Was Only Joking" which would only reach #22. Maybe this example falls under the category of "Chart Boredom" instead of "Chart Manipulations" but I find it hard to believe that all of these songs would magically move up the same number of notches. Possibly a "loose" portion of the chart? Possibly, but I would think a song like "Last Dance" would have leapfrogged over "Even Now" or "You're The Love", as an example. |
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