Countdown America???

[jedijake]

I have a couple of questions regarding Countdown America with John Leader.

First, does anyone have or know of where I could get a copy of the year end for 1983 and 1985? I've been looking for those for years and could not find them anywhere.

Also, does anyone know when John Leader began Countdown America? I've heard some places that it began in the summer of 1983 and I've also heard it began in 1982. Does anyone know?

Finally, did Countdown America always use Radio and Records as its source?

Thanks!

[mrjukebox]

Hi,Jedi-I believe "Countdown America" was also hosted by Dick Clark-If I'm not mistaken,Radio & Records was their source material-As far as locating old shows is concerned,you might want to try E-Bay.

[jedijake]

Yes, Countdown America was picked up Dick Clark after John Leader changed his show to "Countdown USA" in 1985 I believe. Then, Dave Sholin hosted Countdown USA starting in 1987 until its end in 1989. Dick Clark continued Countdown America for a while but then that changed its own name around 1987.

But I was wondering about the beginning of Countdown America. At the end of his show, John Leader played a cool medley of songs from the bottom to #2. I remember recording that in 1984, and again in 1986. Dave Sholin did one in 1987. I missed 1983 and 1985.

It was those medleys, along with the medley of #1 songs Casey did at the end of 1987 that inspired me to make my own year-end medleys for each year.

[vto66]

Jul 3, 2010 14:35:36 GMT -5 jedijake said:

I have a couple of questions regarding Countdown America with John Leader.

First, does anyone have or know of where I could get a copy of the year end for 1983 and 1985? I've been looking for those for years and could not find them anywhere.

Also, does anyone know when John Leader began Countdown America? I've heard some places that it began in the summer of 1983 and I've also heard it began in 1982. Does anyone know?

Finally, did Countdown America always use Radio and Records as its source?

Thanks!

I can remember hearing a "Countdown America" show in January 1983, so it must have started around that time. I would guess that it started one of the first two weeks of 1983.

[shadster]

I thought Countdown AMerica was a DIFFERENT countdown, different name before Leader took over. But I could be completly wrong on that. I'm pretty sure it was radio an records as the source. I didn't hear the show until the beginning of 1984. I'm not even real sure when Dick clark took over, either '85 or '86. I'm leaning toward '85. 1 of our CHR's carried the show but did NOT want it once Dick took over, and somehow they were able to pry Rick Des away from another local CHR and started doing that in 1986. I did hear the Dick clark version on another station somewhere in the area, sometime later. I've never heard a year end countdown though so the only medly of sorts I know of is the top5 recap of a previous year before doing #1 each week. I didn't even know Leader started COuntdown USA. I only remember Dave Sholin. I have a few shows but no year enders, I do know there is a collector who *might* have one. His ebay id is delaware4buzz I might have his email somewhere.

[jedijake]

I've actually done some research since posting this thread. Please correct me where I am wrong. Here's what I found out as well as what I already knew from listening way back when:

Countdown America and Countdown USA were almost identical countdowns in style and format. It almost seemed more like a technicality. When Leader did CA, Dick Clark did his National Music Survey. When John Leader went to Countdown USA, Dick Clark took over Countdown America. Sound confusing?

Actually, it was more of just a name change. Countdown USA with John Leader was the SAME as Countdown America with John Leader. Just the jingle and name were different. Then, when Dick Clark took over Countdown America, it was pretty much the same format as his National Music Survey. Again, the jingle was different.

Then, around 1987, Dave Sholin replaced John Leader for Countdown USA. However, Sholin (who was a chart researcher for Radio and Records) pretty much had the same personality and style as Leader. He did that show until around 1990 when the show was pretty much canceled. Leader had gone on to do voice overs until around 2007.

In 1990, when Countdown USA was canceled, Sholin's show was changed to the Insider. It was a time of shift for pop music. Soon after is when Soundscan/BDS took over the pop charts. Dick Clark, however, continued to do Countdown America, which was an AC/Hot AC show into the 90's. I'm not sure how long that show lasted.

From what I read, Dick Clark's National Music Survey used Cashbox from 1981 (May? June?) until March of 1982. Then he used R&R. John Leader and Dave Sholin also used R&R for CA and CUSA. I believe that Sholin may have used the Gavin? charts for the short span of the "Insider" in 1990.

[mkarns]

Jul 4, 2010 12:14:32 GMT -5 shadster said:

1 of our CHR's carried the show but did NOT want it once Dick took over, and somehow they were able to pry Rick Des away from another local CHR and started doing that in 1986. I did hear the Dick clark version on another station somewhere in the area, sometime later.

I think (but might be wrong) that 105.1-WAVA was the CHR that originally had "Countdown America" and then took Rick Dees away from B-106 (a rather short lived DC-area CHR in the mid-80s). I recall WAVA running Rick until 1989, when they picked up Casey's Top 40. Meanwhile, WRQX (Q107) had AT40, with both Casey and Shadoe, from 1983-91; it was dropped a year after the station assumed the Mix 107 name which it still carries.

(Q107, BTW, in 1983 took AT40 from WPGC, which 40 years ago this weekend was one of the first seven stations to play it.)

[hothitzdj]

Jul 4, 2010 12:14:32 GMT -5 shadster said:

I do know there is a collector who *might* have one. His ebay id is delaware4buzz I might have his email somewhere.

Thanks for mentioning my ebay ID. Shadster is another great collector that can help you out with many shows and contacts.

Discovering the history of the non AT40 shows has been a great pleasure over the past five to seven years (beyond what I remember in real time back in the 80's).

What I can go on...is cue sheets emails/phone calls from other collectors of countdown radio history. My memory isn't always a 100 percent accurate. I know I promised before to answer the Countdown America history in a previous post under a different ID name...well, I never got around to it until now.

I'm going start with a another countdown show. Don't worry they all do connect to Countdown America.

I ran across Mr. Frost who had a bunch of Weekly Top 30/Weekly Music Magazine shows and a reel-to-reel tape dated April 1979 Weekly Top 30 demo from the BILL DRAKE. I never bought the tape as he was asking in the neighborhood of $75 and I don't have any means of playing it. It's safe to say that was the beginning of the first rival of AT40.

From the demo tape and good reception from radio stations, the show began on June 30, 1979 with Mark Elliott as the host. Refer to Rob's book pages 151-153 for more detail about this show and its run.

One correction to Rob's book the show ended January 2, 1982 not January 9, 1982. The last three shows were:

December 26, 1981 last regular 1981 show
December 31, 1981 Special Six Hour Countdown of the Top 80 of 1981
January 2, 1982 last show

My guess is that some stations did the Top 80 over two weeks or just played the Top 40 of 1981 on January 2, 1982 and the last show the following week instead of picking the next offering of Drake-Chenault to replace the Weekly Top 30, The Weekly Music Magazine hosted by Charlie Van Dyke. We are getting closer to the start of Countdown America with John Leader.

January 9, 1982 marked the start of Charlie Van Dyke's show with Elvis Presley as the 1st featured artist. It lasted until January 1, 1983 with Part 2 of the Top 60 of 1982. With some luck, it took me over 25 years to finally hear the last part of this show, so I know the pain of not finding shows for years.

Here's where the history of Countdown America starts from a letter dated December 1, 1982:

"I regret to announce that the 'Weekly Music Magazine' will discontinue production with our New Year's show scheduled for broadcast January 1/2.

During the last year, the 'Weekly Music Magazine' was distributed by the RKO Network. RKO has opted for a new production in 1983 called 'Countdown America'.

Since early Fall, we've been talking to various sponsors regarding the 'Weekly Music Magazine', but we've been unable to finalize anything.

Thanks very much for your support of the show. We look forward to being of service to you in the future.

Happy Holidays,

James Kefford
President
JK/pg"

Next post, I'll cover what I know about Countdown America, Countdown USA and Dick Clark's connection to AT40 CHR/Pop rivals during the period of 1983 to 1990.

By the way, I'm always looking for collectors with Weekly Top 30 & Weekly Music Magazine shows. We are 13 short of a complete set of WMM and in the neighborhood of 50 missing Weekly Top 30 shows.

[hothitzdj]

Before we go into Countdown America’s amazing history, we need to go back to 1981. Dick Clark started his own national music countdown on May 30 featuring the Top 30 songs of the week based on Cashbox magazine. Keep this in mind as he will later play a role in Countdown America.

Although I don’t have the very first Countdown America with John Leader, it’s a safe bet to say that the very first show began on January 8, 1983 based upon that December letter in the last post. The earliest show I have dates February 26, 1983. It was a three hour with the Top 30 based upon Radio & Records chart which was a departure from Weekly Top 30/Weekly Music Magazine self-produced chart.

If you study the Weekly Top 30 shows, you will find an amazing mistake in the production. During an earlier show, they mention that a certain song took over the lead as the #1 song of 1981. When it came to the year-end chart, the songs were reversed. I suppose knowing production was stopped there was little point of being 100 percent accurate at that point. Those charts of WT30 & WMM are a real treat to following with beyond belief movements. I’ll give one example Another One Bites The Dust/Queen (25-7-2-1-1-8-18-19-23-26-13-30). It debuted 9-13-80 and left the chart 11-29-80. For the year of 1980, it was ranked #14. Queen also had #15 for 1980 with “Crazy Little Thing Called Love”.

Until March 12, 1983, Countdown America was the only CHR/Pop show using the Radio & Records charts. Then, after 93 weeks, Dick Clark National Survey drop Cashbox for R&R. Thus, we now have two Top 30 shows with the same song rankings. Supposedly, this is the year that Rick Dees debuts his national Weekly Top 40 show. I say supposedly because no collector has ever produced a 1983 show. Was it just a local show with national rankings in 1983? For now, we don’t know. The earliest show that I found was January 13, 1984 on vinyl. I bring this up only because Rick Dees used the Cashbox charts in 1984 shows. Could have this been the reason for the chart change by Dick Clark?

Countdown America was stable until December 24, 1983 when the first four hour was produced as a part of the Year-End countdown Top 83 of ’83. I only have part 1 of this two part countdown; I will say that the song medley production was outstanding.

1984...This was not only an important year for Countdown America as it switched to the four hour format.

Also, Dick Clark added an AC show to his Dick Clark National Music Survey offerings. The exact date, I don’t know as the earliest one I have is September 8. The cue sheets do not help determine the beginning of Clark’s AC show. However, later on this will play a role with Countdown America.

Why did Clark add the AC show?

Besides the oblivious of making more money, Wink Martindale had an AC show called 20/20 Music World in 1982, where he would play an oldie followed by current Top 20 song thus the name (20 oldies/20 currents). Not sure when it began or ended but Clark could have tried to fill the gap left by Martindale. I have no 20/20 Music World shows for reference just some handwritten chart notes that are difficult to decode.

I will add that 1984 also saw the debut of another CHR/Pop countdown, Dan Ingram’s Top 40 Satellite Survey. This show lasted 141 weeks ending December 26-28, 1986. I have found the #8 show dated June 8-10, 1984, so we can safely assume the debut date based upon that show. I also found December 13, 1986 with guest host Bob Shannon with cue sheets that state end date of the show. This was a three-hour Top 40 show with a self-produced chart. Thus, it is an incredible chart study if you can find these shows. I have run across less than 10 shows so far.

1984 ends with John Leader & Rick Dees doing the Top 84 of ’84 during the last week of the year and the first week of 1985; while Dick Clark does the Top 30 CHR & AC songs, the first week of the 1985. I’ll stop this post as I’m wondering what chart each countdown used for the year-end show. Luckily, I’ll check my copies. I haven’t found part 2 of the Top 83 of ’83. However, I have the complete year-end show of Countdown America’s 1984 & 1985 more on 1985 in the next post.

[shadster]

Jul 4, 2010 18:07:36 GMT -5 mkarns said:

Jul 4, 2010 12:14:32 GMT -5 shadster said:

1 of our CHR's carried the show but did NOT want it once Dick took over, and somehow they were able to pry Rick Des away from another local CHR and started doing that in 1986. I did hear the Dick clark version on another station somewhere in the area, sometime later.

I think (but might be wrong) that 105.1-WAVA was the CHR that originally had "Countdown America" and then took Rick Dees away from B-106 (a rather short lived DC-area CHR in the mid-80s). I recall WAVA running Rick until 1989, when they picked up Casey's Top 40. Meanwhile, WRQX (Q107) had AT40, with both Casey and Shadoe, from 1983-91; it was dropped a year after the station assumed the Mix 107 name which it still carries.

(Q107, BTW, in 1983 took AT40 from WPGC, which 40 years ago this weekend was one of the first seven stations to play it.)

Yes It was WAVA that aired Countdown America, can't say if they aired it in '83 as I didnt listen to radio till the dawn of '84. However, After Rick Dees appeared on WASH, it popped up later on Q107. THey ran the show sunday nights 7-11, or rather 7-1045, they never seemed to add enough 'ads' to time it out properly. Presumably the contract ended at the end of '85 because I quickly realized they stopped airing it and then discoverd it on WAVA. The only countdown B106 ever had was Scott Shannons, Rockin AMerica.

On another note, I also remember a different countdown for AC stations called "Top 30 USA" w/ M G Kelly. WINC used to air this show back in '86. I'd categorize it as Hot AC but since that didn't exist in the 80s.......AC

[at40petebattistini]

I can add some information here. Dan Ingram's Satellite Survey debuted on April 21, 1984 with a chart based on listener requests. At least that's what I have in my notes for this show.

Also, I have a promo copy of Top 30 USA, a countdown hosted by MG Kelley. The program's chart came from Radio & Records and was written by a former AT40 staff member, Scott Paton. As for the actual chart used for the demo program, I'm not sure other than it's Spring 1983. Dan Fogelberg's "Make Love Stay" was #30 and Lionel Richie's "My Love" was #1. Perhaps someone can nail down a date with that information.

[Shadoe Fan]

Jul 7, 2010 10:27:48 GMT -5 at40petebattistini said:

I can add some information here. Dan Ingram's Satellite Survey debuted on April 21, 1984 with a chart based on listener requests. At least that's what I have in my notes for this show.

Also, I have a promo copy of Top 30 USA, a countdown hosted by MG Kelley. The program's chart came from Radio & Records and was written by a former AT40 staff member, Scott Paton. As for the actual chart used for the demo program, I'm not sure other than it's Spring 1983. Dan Fogelberg's "Make Love Stay" was #30 and Lionel Richie's "My Love" was #1. Perhaps someone can nail down a date with that information.

Well, I'm not sure what the chart used for the demo show was, but "My Love" never reached #1 on the R&R pop chart. It peaked at #6:
www2.uta.edu/hunt/charts/lrichie.html It peaked in May of '83 there. According to a website about Cashbox, "My Love" never reached #1 there either. www.cashboxmagazine.com/archives/80s_files/1983.html

[hothitzdj]

1985 featured more upheaval in the countdown world. After 231 weeks, the Dick Clark’s National Music Survey became the National Music Survey. Dick Clark went on to replace John Leader as the host of Countdown America, thus the new name Countdown America with Dick Clark. The last show of Countdown America with John Leader that I have is October 12, 1985, so I don’t know how John handled the ending during the show or the promos used with Dick Clark as the new host. I do know this much…Dick Clark was the host of Countdown America on November 2, 1985 based upon the December 7 show that called it show #6.

Dick Clark made no mention of leaving the National Music Survey on his last show October 26, 1985 on either the CHR/Pop or AC version. However, the promos mentioned a Special Super Song countdown coming next week with Bill St. James & Mike Love of the Beach Boys. They made two versions of the special countdown CHR/Pop & AC featuring the Top 30 songs of the past 10 years (1975-85). Here’s where it became interesting; they also included a list of the Top 100 songs of the past 10 years. This is where stations wanting a “bigger countdown” could produce their own countdown show. Not sure if there were any takers…as no collector has come forward with a local station air-check.

Bill St. James & Mike Love continued to produce two versions of the show until at least March 15, 1986 as that is my last copy of a CHR show. My guess is that sometime between March 22 and April 26 that the National Music Survey became just an AC show. So far, I know that Charlie Tuna, then Bill Meyer with Sylvia Emerita hosted the National Music Survey when Bill St. James left. More details will come out as the search for these shows continue. The show lasted somewhere between 400-500 weeks counting Dick Clark’s 1981 debut.

Countdown America is now in the hands of Dick Clark. First change, no two part year-end show with song medley production, instead, Clark opts for Top 40 of 1985 on January 4, 1986.

Meanwhile, two new Pop countdowns debut while Countdown America and National Music Survey go through changes in 1985.

Scott Shannon’s Rockin’ America The Top 30 Countdown used the R&R chart as its foundation for the three hour show. The actual start and end of this is unknown at this point. The earliest copy I have is 3-9-85. The show did go through a name and chart change in 1991. The actual date is unknown my best guess would the first week of 1991. The show became Scott Shannon’s Rockin’ America All-Request Top 30 Countdown meaning no more use of R&R charts.

On The Radio provided an interesting twist for programmers. Hosted by the late Ron O’Brien, it was only one hour long. Many stations used it as a supplement to AT40, Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 and Countdown America to complete a five hour block of time. It featured the Top 5 songs of the week with lots of interviews and an amazing closing credit feature. I have been able to locate shows between 2-1-85 and 12-28-91. I’m not sure on this show’s start or end date and what happened after 1991 with new host or adding versions.

Dick Clark made even more changes to Countdown America in 1986. He dropped the CHR/Pop Top 40 songs of the week for the Top 30 AC songs on July 5. I don't know how Clark handled the dropping of the CHR/Pop. If someone has the 6-28-86 show, they probably know from the cue sheets, promos or actual show. Countdown America with Dick Clark would eventually become a three hour show and go down to Top 20 AC songs. At some point between 1-14-94 and 4-5-96, the show changed its name from Countdown America with Dick Clark to Dick Clark’s U.S. Music Survey. He would continue to host this show until he suffered his stroke. The show had guest hosts for a year or two until the show finally went dark five-six years ago.

With Dick Clark no longer doing a CHR/Pop show, John Leader made his return to the countdown market. Being that Countdown America name was used by Clark. He revived his countdown hosting duties with Countdown U.S.A. with John Leader on January 11, 1986. I don’t know how the first show sounded as the earliest available copy I have is 1-18-86 with spotlight artist as Night Ranger. This also marked the return of the song medley with the year-end Top 86 of ’86. It also marked the end of John Leader’s countdown career.

The promos on 1-3-87 show were done by Dave Sholin; thus marking the beginning of his countdown the following week as Countdown U.S.A. with Dave Sholin.

Countdown U.S.A. with Dave Sholin lasted until 1990. I believe April 21. I don’t have shows or cue sheet to confirm this. I do know this; Dave Sholin’s Insider debuted 4-28-90. It was a four hour show similar to Countdown U.S.A. with longer segments and comedy bits (‘the joke of the week”) that used the Gavin chart. I’m not sure of the end date. The last show I have from this series is 7-21-90 (show #13).

The 90’s sure gave us some curveballs as well (new shows and added versions to deal “Rap Crap/Too Heavy Metal Era”).

Some side notes:
*Dick Clark guest hosted on AT40 before starting his own show Dick Clark's National Music Survey (refer to Rob's book)
*Mark Elliott guest hosted on AT40 before starting his show Weekly Top 30 (refer to Rob’s book)
*John Leader guest hosted on Weekly Top 30 before starting his own show Countdown America with John Leader (3-29-80)
*Rick Dees guest hosted on Weekly Top 30 before starting his own show Rick Dees’ Weekly Top 40 (6-6-81)
*Ron O’Brien guest hosted on Weekly Top 40 before starting his own show On The Radio (7-14-84)

[mstgator]

Jul 7, 2010 11:48:15 GMT -5 Shadoe Fan said:

Jul 7, 2010 10:27:48 GMT -5 at40petebattistini said:

I can add some information here. Dan Ingram's Satellite Survey debuted on April 21, 1984 with a chart based on listener requests. At least that's what I have in my notes for this show.

Also, I have a promo copy of Top 30 USA, a countdown hosted by MG Kelley. The program's chart came from Radio & Records and was written by a former AT40 staff member, Scott Paton. As for the actual chart used for the demo program, I'm not sure other than it's Spring 1983. Dan Fogelberg's "Make Love Stay" was #30 and Lionel Richie's "My Love" was #1. Perhaps someone can nail down a date with that information.

Well, I'm not sure what the chart used for the demo show was, but "My Love" never reached #1 on the R&R pop chart. It peaked at #6:
www2.uta.edu/hunt/charts/lrichie.html It peaked in May of '83 there. According to a website about Cashbox, "My Love" never reached #1 there either. www.cashboxmagazine.com/archives/80s_files/1983.html

It probably would have used R&R's AC chart (assuming their chart was at least 30 positions). I only have Billboard to reference, with "My Love" hitting #1 during late May/early June, and "Make Love Stay" on the way down at that point (hit #1 in early April).

[jedijake]

Wow! This is outstanding stuff! Exactly what I wanted!

I will add just a couple of things that I know of (which pales in comparison to what has already been said).

I first discovered John Leader in the summer of 1983 when he was doing a summer hits countdown. He did a recap-medley which I thought was pretty cool. Then I didn't hear his show until 1984. I was completely impressed with the end of the year medley that year. Recently, I made my own 1983 and 1985 R&R medleys using Windows Movie Maker and recorded it to disc using my computer.

In 1988 and 1989 when Dave Sholin did his Countdown USA end-of-year medleys, he narrated each song. It was still cool, but not as cool as they were without narration.

As far as R&R pop charts go, 1982 CHR charts were VERY different from Cashbox and Billboard. For most of the year, they were more like AC charts for the time (actually very similar to what Hot AC would have been). Songs like "Gypsy" hit #1 while hitting #12 on Billboard. "It's Raining Again" hit #2 (#11 on BB) and "IGY" hit #6 (#26 on BB) and that's just touching the surface. A countdown using R&R CHR chart at that time would have sounded VERY strange on pop radio.

These histories are EXCELLENT! Thank you all so much for sharing!

Btw, I'm still in dire search for the 1983 and 1984 end-of-year medleys that were featured by John Leader.