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Post by bandit73 on Feb 25, 2014 0:53:36 GMT -5
I've been thinking a lot lately about some AT40 "what ifs"...
What if Casey hadn't left AT40 in 1988?
What if AT40 hadn't stopped using the Hot 100? What if it still used it?
What if AT40 hadn't ceased production in the mid-'90s?
What if Casey's Top 40 (starting in the late '80s) had used the Hot 100?
What if AT40 had never expanded to 4 hours?
What if AT40 had become a live show at some point?
What if someone other than Shadoe had replaced Casey? Shadoe was great, but what about the other candidates to replace Casey?
What if AT40 had stopped using the Hot 100 even earlier than it did?
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Post by mkarns on Feb 25, 2014 1:14:27 GMT -5
I'll say that if it hadn't dropped the Hot 100, it would probably have ended in the 90s sooner than it did. Stations probably wouldn't have played a show that included so much stuff they weren't playing and ignored lots of songs they were. That was especially soon the 1990s but would even be a problem today (all those downloads and YouTube clips radio doesn't play.). The same would likely have been true for CT40 within a couple of years. Switching charts earlier might have helped if the chart was reasonably related to what radio was playing; Radio & Records comes to mind, as Rick Dees did well with it while AT40 still used the Hot 100.
If the show had stayed 3 hours, it would have sounded increasingly choppy as songs continued to get longer overall, though there probably would have been fewer extras (no LDD's? That's maybe not such a bad thing.) Though eventually the shorter length would perhaps have been less of a problem; by the time we get to the Seacrest years we can probably cut a lot of the extras (usually 7 to 10 per show) and the celebrity chitchat and fit it into 3 hours without too much editing of the chart entries.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 16:12:39 GMT -5
I've been thinking a lot lately about some AT40 "what ifs"... What if Casey hadn't left AT40 in 1988? What if AT40 hadn't stopped using the Hot 100? What if it still used it? What if AT40 hadn't ceased production in the mid-'90s? What if Casey's Top 40 (starting in the late '80s) had used the Hot 100? What if AT40 had never expanded to 4 hours? What if AT40 had become a live show at some point? What if someone other than Shadoe had replaced Casey? Shadoe was great, but what about the other candidates to replace Casey? What if AT40 had stopped using the Hot 100 even earlier than it did? 1.) He would have remained host of AT40 2.) The show would have died by the end of 93. It wouldn't still be using it as it would not exist to. 3.) ABC would still own the show and producing it internationally. Ryan Seacrest would be hosting the "On Air Top 40" for Westwood One as Casey would have left in 2004. 4.) They couldn't. AT40 had exclusive rights to it. 5.) Wollenberg would be complaining about even more edits on a weekly basis. 6.) nearly impossible 7.) The other candidate was Pat Sajak. The show would have ended January 28, 1995. 8.) Probably would have helped but only postponed the inevitable. They truly needed to get away from BB altogether IMO. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 16:19:21 GMT -5
Pat Sajak was a candidate?
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Post by bandit73 on Feb 25, 2014 22:40:29 GMT -5
I heard Ronald Reagan's son was actually a candidate to replace Casey.
Also, there was a DJ at some small station in North Carolina who was a candidate.
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Feb 26, 2014 5:27:07 GMT -5
What if the rabbit hadn't stopped to $hit in the woods? ;-)
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Post by dukelightning on Feb 28, 2014 9:12:26 GMT -5
Another way to look at this is to see all the well known songs (IMO) that did not hit the top 40 using the Hot 100. Here are a few examples of such songs....
BEST I EVER HAD.....Vertical Horizon, peaked at 58
I DON'T CARE...Shakespeare's Sister, peaked at 55
DISARM...Smashing Pumpkins, peaked at 48
ALL SHE WROTE...Firehouse, peaked at 58
THIS IS HOW A HEART BREAKS...Rob Thomas, peaked at 52
THE SWEETEST THING...U2, peaked at 63
All of those were on either CT40 or AT40 BTW.
Another category would be album cuts prior to 1999 that could not be on the Hot 100, such as...
MR. JONES....Counting Crows
DON'T SPEAK....No Doubt
TORN...Natalie Imbruglia
FLY...Sugar Ray
I'LL BE THERE FOR YOU...Rembrandts
Can't have a CHR top 40 countdown without songs such as these and there are many others in both categories. So using the Hot 100 makes absolutely no sense. I'm guessing a bunch of rap songs took these songs places in the top 40. Yeah right!
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Post by jlthorpe on Feb 28, 2014 22:47:33 GMT -5
Another way to look at this is to see all the well known songs (IMO) that did not hit the top 40 using the Hot 100. Here are a few examples of such songs.... BEST I EVER HAD.....Vertical Horizon, peaked at 58 I DON'T CARE...Shakespeare's Sister, peaked at 55 DISARM...Smashing Pumpkins, peaked at 48 ALL SHE WROTE...Firehouse, peaked at 58 THIS IS HOW A HEART BREAKS...Rob Thomas, peaked at 52 THE SWEETEST THING...U2, peaked at 63 All of those were on either CT40 or AT40 BTW. Another category would be album cuts prior to 1999 that could not be on the Hot 100, such as... MR. JONES....Counting Crows DON'T SPEAK....No Doubt TORN...Natalie Imbruglia FLY...Sugar Ray I'LL BE THERE FOR YOU...Rembrandts Can't have a CHR top 40 countdown without songs such as these and there are many others in both categories. So using the Hot 100 makes absolutely no sense. I'm guessing a bunch of rap songs took these songs places in the top 40. Yeah right! After the Hot 100 changes in 1998, a lot of country songs took their places as well. It's funny to listen to AT40 countdowns from after 1998 and hear songs that not only didn't hit the Top 40 on the Hot 100, but didn't chart at all. For example, "Promises" by Def Leppard made AT40 but only bubbled under at #102 in Billboard. And "Someday We'll Know" by New Radicals didn't hit the Hot 100 or the Bubbling Under chart. |
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Post by dukelightning on Mar 1, 2014 9:17:40 GMT -5
Good point about the country songs. I just finished going through Joel Whitburn's 1955-2012 Pop Single book that I bought recently and noticed the plethora of country songs that made the top 40 in the 90s and especially 2000s. But most of them peaked in the 20s and 30s. And then you look at major country artists from before the Soundscan era especially the 80s and you notice another plethora of songs...classic non-Hot 100 hits Whitburn listed. Brian or someone else can confirm but I am guessing most of these songs were released but because of the anti-country song mode then, they could not even reach the Hot 100. So it seems to be that country songs were under represented in the 80s on the Hot 100 and then over represented starting in the mid-90s. And thus the 70s are really the decade where the representation of country songs on the Hot 100 is the most accurate.
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Post by mstgator on Mar 1, 2014 23:52:41 GMT -5
Correct... Any song that missed the Hot 100 but hit #1 on one of Billboard's other major singles charts is listed among the Classic Non-Hot 100 Songs. The majority of these songs would have charted on the Hot 100 had it been an all-format chart as it is now.
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Post by matt on Mar 4, 2014 16:37:43 GMT -5
What if the rabbit hadn't stopped to $hit in the woods? ;-) He would have caught the bear! Or was it the other way around...  |
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Post by matt on Mar 4, 2014 17:00:14 GMT -5
I've been thinking a lot lately about some AT40 "what ifs"... I'll give this my best guesses: What if Casey hadn't left AT40 in 1988? -Well, the assumption is that he would have re-upped for another 5 years, taking him to the end of 1993. It's anyone's guess as to what happens at that point. However, given ABC's reticence to add the AC shows for AT40 while Shadoe was there, there's a good bet that something would have had to give as the 90's progressed. What if AT40 hadn't stopped using the Hot 100? What if it still used it? -Agree with Paul--it had to stop using the Hot 100 once the change to Soundscan was made. Otherwise the show would have died much earlier--presumably there would have been no way for the show to survive on the Hot 100's top 40 songs given AT40's listening audience at the time. What if AT40 hadn't ceased production in the mid-'90s? -Guessing there would have had to be some drastic changes to the show, including canning Shadoe and bringing in someone else (the question is who?), ABC execs pulling their heads out, and at least one AC alternative show added in order for it to survive. About the only way it would have made it was if they could have brought Casey back or gotten Rick Dees to take over using his style. What if Casey's Top 40 (starting in the late '80s) had used the Hot 100? -Right, as Paul says it's practically a moot point since AT40 had the exclusive rights. If somehow CT40 had been able to use the Hot 100, it can be assumed that they too would have changed to an airplay only chart when Billboard started using the Soundscan system in Nov. 1991. What if AT40 had never expanded to 4 hours? -Yikes...hard to imagine the show running 3 hours during the 80's. It would have been a much less desirable listen IMHO. I can handle a few edits, but there would have had to be so many, and nothing in the way of extras (though some might not have been too upset if there were never any LDDs). Perhaps a better question would be: what if the show had started as a 4-hour show? What if AT40 had become a live show at some point? -Not sure how this would have been at all feasible. What if someone other than Shadoe had replaced Casey? Shadoe was great, but what about the other candidates to replace Casey? -Pat Sajak was a leading candidate...and I'm not sure the show even lasts until 1/28/95 as it did with Shadoe. One would have to guess that no matter who they brought in as Casey's replacement, the show had a tough road once Casey left, due to the fact that Casey was able to start a competing countdown (and the mass-exodus of subscribing radio stations that ensued once Casey did leave). I'm not sure who out there would have been able overcome that. I always personally really liked Charlie Van Dyke (and still do) and felt he could have been an excellent replacement for Casey, but I guess he wasn't one of the finalists that was considered. And you have to wonder if a style too similar to Casey's could have competed against Casey himself once CT40 began. What if AT40 had stopped using the Hot 100 even earlier than it did? This is a tough guess...the Hot 100 was part of what helped maintain the show's appeal for some of the listening audience, so there may have been somewhat of a hit when they dropped it as there was in Nov. 1991. But the Hot 100 didn't really change much until the switch to Soundscan--until then, the Hot 100 and charts like R&R weren't that drastically different, save for the handful of non-singles that became popular on radio, and thus made the R&R (Cashbox, etc.) charts while not being eligible for ranking on the Hot 100. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2014 17:53:46 GMT -5
I'll add one thing to the "live" question. While it wasn't live, there was a time in the 80s ABC did air the show via satellite at noon eastern/9am pacific that stations could air it they chose to. The show ran to the second on the show clock and local stations would just put in their local spots where they were alloted and if the station had none, abc's satellite was airing psa's and what not. It was so successful it only lasted a few years at the most. It's hard to have a live national music program on a music station IMO. If AT40 was live, it has to be a reasonable time in every market and one that would generate listeners in every market. Noon eastern is a problem because that may be up against sporting events generating local interests or something else. Same if it's 6pm or some other time. Plus it isn't like you are missing something if At40 or any countdown show isn't live.
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Post by matt on Mar 5, 2014 9:56:32 GMT -5
I'll add one thing to the "live" question. While it wasn't live, there was a time in the 80s ABC did air the show via satellite at noon eastern/9am pacific that stations could air it they chose to. The show ran to the second on the show clock and local stations would just put in their local spots where they were alloted and if the station had none, abc's satellite was airing psa's and what not. It was so successful it only lasted a few years at the most. It's hard to have a live national music program on a music station IMO. If AT40 was live, it has to be a reasonable time in every market and one that would generate listeners in every market. Noon eastern is a problem because that may be up against sporting events generating local interests or something else. Same if it's 6pm or some other time. Plus it isn't like you are missing something if At40 or any countdown show isn't live. True--I guess a possible answer to the question "What if AT40 had been a live show?" might be this: it would likely have been a very different show. Keep in mind that just about everything (other than maybe Casey's outcues as I understand it) was scripted--I'm not a radio guy by trade, but I have to believe that having a live show would have changed how much scripting could have been done and therefore, how many stories, etc. could have been included to the degree that they were. Perhaps the show would have taken on more the feel of a "morning drive" type show...which again, would have been quite different than what AT40 has been throughout its run. |
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Post by Caseyfan4everRyanfanNever on Mar 5, 2014 23:17:26 GMT -5
Another question I've always wondered about is whether ABC/Watermark thought about buying Casey's Top 40 instead of Rick Dees's Weekly Top 40 in 1994? Wouldn't it have been interesting if they had?
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