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Post by woolebull on May 7, 2022 10:07:07 GMT -5
I have listened to quite a few of the Dees shows from the June 1995-1997 era where he used the more urban CHR charts for his countdown. I was curious were there really major differences between the CHR and the more urban CHR at that time? I know some songs charted higher, but were there any major discrepancies such as a song that hit top 10 on CT during that time not hitting on Dees at all, or vice versa? Or a song hitting one on one chart and not hitting one on the other?
I was wondering if anyone had tracked the differences in the two shows during that time.
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Post by freakyflybry on May 7, 2022 22:43:03 GMT -5
The biggest I can think of was that "Hey Lover" by LL Cool J and Boyz II Men, which didn't even go top 50 R&R, got as high as #11 on Dees.
As for songs ranking high on CT40 but not Dees, I think most of the songs that didn't make Dees were low peakers on CT40.
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Post by woolebull on May 8, 2022 23:00:42 GMT -5
The biggest I can think of was that "Hey Lover" by LL Cool J and Boyz II Men, which didn't even go top 50 R&R, got as high as #11 on Dees. As for songs ranking high on CT40 but not Dees, I think most of the songs that didn't make Dees were low peakers on CT40. Wow! Had no idea "Hey Lover" made it that high on Dees. That's wild. A weird Urban CHR effect you wouldn't think would naturally happen: "It's All Comimg Back To Me Now" by Celine Dion: #2 on CT...#1 Dees. |
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Post by dth1971 on May 9, 2022 6:20:25 GMT -5
The biggest I can think of was that "Hey Lover" by LL Cool J and Boyz II Men, which didn't even go top 50 R&R, got as high as #11 on Dees. As for songs ranking high on CT40 but not Dees, I think most of the songs that didn't make Dees were low peakers on CT40. Wow! Had no idea "Hey Lover" made it that high on Dees. That's wild. A weird Urban CHR effect you wouldn't think would naturally happen: "It's All Comimg Back To Me Now" by Celine Dion: #2 on CT...#1 Dees. I wonder if "Can't Nobody Hold Me Down" by Puff Daddy and Mase made Rick Dees urban leaning CHR in 1997 despite making it to #1 on Billboard's Hot 100 but not making the R&R CHR/Pop chart used for Casey's Top 40. Same for "Hypnotize" by the Nortorious B.I.G. |
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Post by woolebull on May 9, 2022 9:53:43 GMT -5
Wow! Had no idea "Hey Lover" made it that high on Dees. That's wild. A weird Urban CHR effect you wouldn't think would naturally happen: "It's All Comimg Back To Me Now" by Celine Dion: #2 on CT...#1 Dees. I wonder if "Can't Nobody Hold Me Down" by Puff Daddy and Mase made Rick Dees urban leaning CHR in 1997 despite making it to #1 on Billboard's Hot 100 but not making the R&R CHR/Pop chart used for Casey's Top 40. Same for "Hypnotize" by the Nortorious B.I.G. I need to go back and see what date Dees flipped back over to CHR. The time frame might have prevented those two songs from being on Dees. I can tell you this: Dees 5/3/97 is still the urban CHR. And besides some of the more urban songs at the bottom of the countdown, No Doubt and "Don't Speak" was still in the Top 5 (!) while "MMM Bop" seems to be really low for the date at #20. |
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Post by Hervard on May 9, 2022 15:15:13 GMT -5
July 19, 1997 is when Dees flipped back to CHR/Pop.
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Post by Mike on May 9, 2022 23:24:56 GMT -5
"It's All Coming Back to Me Now" is an example of why I'm thinking it was less of an "urban" chart he was using, and may instead have been a "customized" chart, quite possibly being the first one to use an affiliate-stations chart (which AT40 does now). (But if he had a number of big-city affiliates, that's where the "urban"/Rhythmic airplay would factor in.)
Now, "It's All" did make it to #16 on Billboard's Rhythmic chart (don't know about R&R, but I imagine it'd be somewhere around there) and did last for 22 weeks on that chart, and both "Because You Loved Me" and "My Heart Will Go On" did each go Top 5 there (#4 and #3), so indeed that side of CHR wasn't completely averse to playing her. But I still can't help but think that if it was merely an "urban"-skewing chart, there'd have been even more of such an effect than there was. (For example: Though "I'll Be There For You" only got 3 weeks atop his countdown as opposed to 8, under a deliberately-"urban"-skewing chart, it may not have gotten there at all.)
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Post by woolebull on May 11, 2022 11:02:07 GMT -5
"It's All Coming Back to Me Now" is an example of why I'm thinking it was less of an "urban" chart he was using, and may instead have been a "customized" chart, quite possibly being the first one to use an affiliate-stations chart (which AT40 does now). (But if he had a number of big-city affiliates, that's where the "urban"/Rhythmic airplay would factor in.) Now, "It's All" did make it to #16 on Billboard's Rhythmic chart (don't know about R&R, but I imagine it'd be somewhere around there) and did last for 22 weeks on that chart, and both "Because You Loved Me" and "My Heart Will Go On" did each go Top 5 there (#4 and #3), so indeed that side of CHR wasn't completely averse to playing her. But I still can't help but think that if it was merely an "urban"-skewing chart, there'd have been even more of such an effect than there was. (For example: Though "I'll Be There For You" only got 3 weeks atop his countdown as opposed to 8, under a deliberately-"urban"-skewing chart, it may not have gotten there at all.) Mike, I am with you on this. Just a quick search and "It's All" was #21 on the CHR/Rhythmic Top 50 listed in the 11/29/96. Celine would either have been number one on Dees on 11/30 and possibly 12/7 (I need to go back and check). So something certainly doesn't add up from a Dees perspective. Of course with Dees, does it ever truly add up?  To your point on Dees possibly being the first countdown to use an affiliate-stations chart, didn't Dan Ingram do that with Top 40 Satellite Survey? |
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Post by woolebull on May 11, 2022 11:26:35 GMT -5
Ok, I did a little more research from the 4/30/97 Radio and Records Magazine. The Top 5 CHR:
1) Jewel - You Were Meant For Me
2) Savage Garden - I Want You
3) One Headlight - Wallflowers
4) Cardigans - Lovefool
5) Paula Cole - Where Have All The Cowboys Gone?
The Top 5 R/CHR:
1) Blackstreet - Don't Leave Me
2) Mark Morrison - Return of the Mack
3) SWV - Can We
4) Monica - For You I will
5) Notorious BIG - Hypnotize
The Top 5 on Dees for the week that this info would have been the basis:
1) Jewel - You Were Meant For Me
2) Cardigans - Lovefool
3) Savage Garden - I Want You
4) No Doubt - Don't Speak
5) Spice Girls - Wannabe
SWV and Biggie weren't on the 5/3/97 Dees show.
I think you hit the nail on the head, Mike. Whatever chart Dees used, it certainly wasn't the R-CHR. Maybe as you said it was a compilation of things. I wonder why we were under the notion that Dees had totally switched to R-CHR?
BTW, regarding The Rembrandts: quick check shows that while it was number one for the week of 7/29/95 from a CHR standpoint, it wasn't in the top 50 from a R-CHR standpoint.
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Post by dth1971 on May 14, 2022 8:33:18 GMT -5
"It's All Coming Back to Me Now" is an example of why I'm thinking it was less of an "urban" chart he was using, and may instead have been a "customized" chart, quite possibly being the first one to use an affiliate-stations chart (which AT40 does now). (But if he had a number of big-city affiliates, that's where the "urban"/Rhythmic airplay would factor in.) Now, "It's All" did make it to #16 on Billboard's Rhythmic chart (don't know about R&R, but I imagine it'd be somewhere around there) and did last for 22 weeks on that chart, and both "Because You Loved Me" and "My Heart Will Go On" did each go Top 5 there (#4 and #3), so indeed that side of CHR wasn't completely averse to playing her. But I still can't help but think that if it was merely an "urban"-skewing chart, there'd have been even more of such an effect than there was. (For example: Though "I'll Be There For You" only got 3 weeks atop his countdown as opposed to 8, under a deliberately-"urban"-skewing chart, it may not have gotten there at all.) Mike, I am with you on this. Just a quick search and "It's All" was #21 on the CHR/Rhythmic Top 50 listed in the 11/29/96. Celine would either have been number one on Dees on 11/30 and possibly 12/7 (I need to go back and check). So something certainly doesn't add up from a Dees perspective. Of course with Dees, does it ever truly add up?  To your point on Dees possibly being the first countdown to use an affiliate-stations chart, didn't Dan Ingram do that with Top 40 Satellite Survey? I didn't know Dan Ingram used a Top 40 chart via affiliate stations. I know the 1990-1991 Dave Sholin's Insider Top 40/Insider Top 30 used Gavin Report CHR charts. |
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Post by woolebull on May 14, 2022 9:04:18 GMT -5
Mike, I am with you on this. Just a quick search and "It's All" was #21 on the CHR/Rhythmic Top 50 listed in the 11/29/96. Celine would either have been number one on Dees on 11/30 and possibly 12/7 (I need to go back and check). So something certainly doesn't add up from a Dees perspective. Of course with Dees, does it ever truly add up? To your point on Dees possibly being the first countdown to use an affiliate-stations chart, didn't Dan Ingram do that with Top 40 Satellite Survey? I didn't know Dan Ingram used a Top 40 chart via affiliate stations. I know the 1990-1991 Dave Sholin's Insider Top 40/Insider Top 30 used Gavin Report CHR charts. Yeah I think that was Dan's whole thing: The affiliates would help to compile the list. I just looked at an ad for "Survey" and it says as much: it was "an opportunity for your station to actively participate in the research and the development of the weekly playlist". I did know about "Insider" so Dees might have been third in line for this type of format. |
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Post by OldSchoolAT40Fan on May 29, 2022 18:46:29 GMT -5
I know "Spice Up Your Life" by Spice Girls did make the Rick Dees top 40 in late 1997, but never made it to CT40. I wonder why this was the case. Did the Spice Girls refuse to clear that song for U.S. airplay?
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Post by Mike on May 29, 2022 19:07:17 GMT -5
I know "Spice Up Your Life" by Spice Girls did make the Rick Dees top 40 in late 1997, but never made it to CT40. I wonder why this was the case. Did the Spice Girls refuse to clear that song for U.S. airplay? No, that was the point where they were hitting over-saturation in the States. "Spice Up Your Life" was the lead single off Spiceworld, plus their movie of the same name was also pending (it would be released in theaters in January 1998). Essentially, stations had decided they were getting sick of the group. The only way the song would have made it into his countdown is if he felt like putting it in. Odds are, that means he felt like keeping someone else out or else otherwise taking someone else off early. Who that would have been, I can't be sure without doing a chart comparison. |
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Post by freakyflybry on Jul 2, 2022 10:48:30 GMT -5
These songs I could gather made CT40 but not Dees:
Jordan Hill - Remember Me This Way (36)
Bruce Hornsby - Walk In The Sun (38)
Rusted Root - Send Me On My Way (39) (was sure shot on September 16, 1995)
Silverchair - Tomorrow (40)
Backstreet Boys - We Got It Goin' On (35)
Tom Cochrane - I Wish You Well (40)
Prince - Gold (39)
Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers - Waiting For Tonight (33)
Folk Implosion - Natural One (40)
Seven Mary Three - Cumbersome (39)
Goo Goo Dolls - Naked (40) (was sure shot on March 16, 1996)
Nixons - Sister (36)
Patti Rothberg - Inside (39)
Fun Factory - Don't Go Away (38) - unsure if this missed or made Dees due to incomplete data
Bodeans - Hurt By Love (40)
Amanda Marshall - Fall From Grace (40)
Journey - If He Should Break Your Heart (37)
Dishwalla - Give (37)
Barenaked Ladies - The Old Apartment (39)
Aerosmith - Hole In My Soul (39)
And these I could recall made Dees but not CT40: (some incomplete data, going by memory on a few of these)
Mokenstef - He's Mine (13)
Shaggy - Boombastic (30)
Brandy & Wanya Morris - Brokenhearted (22)
Xscape - Who Can I Run To (28)
LL Cool J feat. Boyz II Men - Hey Lover (11)
Planet Soul - Set U Free (34)
R. Kelly feat. Ronald Isley - Down Low (Nobody Has To Know) (34)
Joe - All The Things (Your Man Won't Do) (39)
Puff Johnson - Forever More (37)
New Edition - Hit Me Off
LL Cool J - Loungin'
Bone Thugs-N-Harmony - Days Of Our Livez
The Braids - Bohemian Rhapsody
Tony Toni Tone - Let's Get Down (34)
Aaliyah - One In A Million (29)
Dru Hill - In My Bed (33)
SWV feat. Missy Elliott - Can We (38)
Mary J. Blige - Love Is All We Need (34)
Michael Jackson - Blood On The Dancefloor
Indigo Girls - Shame On You
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Post by dth1971 on Jul 3, 2022 9:21:09 GMT -5
From what I saw from the list of Dees and CT40 misses, it's too bad three 1996-1997 #1 songs on Billboard's Hot 100: "How Do You Want It" by 2 Pac, "Can't Nobody Hold Me Down" by Puff Daddy featuring Mase, and "Hypnotize" by the Nortorius B.I.G. failed to make CT40 and Rick Dees.
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