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Post by palmer7 on Apr 28, 2016 12:56:15 GMT -5
At least not in this point in time. When we enter the 20s, perhaps that will change.
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Post by mitchm on May 10, 2016 16:10:34 GMT -5
I think that countdown shows after August of 1988 will probably be aired sooner than many people think. Millions of people were listening to the radio then and were buying millions of records, and many advertisers would be thrilled to get their name in front of that age group. If programs from Casey and Shadoe aren't available for rebroadcast, someone else will figure out a way to fill that void before 2020. Rick Dees and XM's Downtown Julie Brown are already having weekly countdowns, but I think better options will be available.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 17:23:20 GMT -5
How many stations are those on? That's why it isn't happening "sooner than people think." Dees's show is far more synonymous with the 90s than Caseys Top 40 or American Top 40 and if it can't clear more than a few stations it isn't happening for the others.
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Post by BrettVW on May 11, 2016 15:11:42 GMT -5
I agree. Are the 90s Dees shows even on 10 stations anymore? There just isn't a market for that era of music. Even Backtrax 90s never took off anywhere near the same level as the 80s version in its prime, and both of those shows have seen major drops in affiliates in recent years.
Outside of CHR and New Country, 80s dominated Classic Hits and Variety Hits stations are the main music formats right now. Which is great for fans of AT40 the 80s and why that show is on more stations than ever these days, while AT40 the 70s slowly loses steam. Those Variety Hits stations, like WODC and WQSR would be the most likely candidates to dip into the 90s countdown or syndicated show market, and they just aren't doing it. Even our standard AC here in Orlando proudly brands itself as "The 80s and More" - the more being 2000s and Today AC. In every one of their promotional sweepers they blatantly skip over the 90s, and their playlist shows it.
If the Shadoe and Casey to WW1 scenario never played out, do I think 1989 AT40 shows would be offered in the AT40 80s package? Of course they would. But much like the 1980/1981 shows, many of them would feature a good chunk of songs not really popular today.
As I have stated before, over the last 20 years we have seen Oldies radio naturally shift to Classic Hits and Variety Hits radio, and the focus naturally moved from the 50s and 60s, to the 60s and 70s, to now the 70s and primarily 80s. I don't see that progression moving forward. I can't imagine stations like WCBS and KRTH being all 90s 8-10 years from now, I just can't. I could be totally wrong and way off base, but there is something about that era of music that did not hold up. The CHR format fractured and it took until 1997-ish for it to come back. Our local Classic Hits station, WOCL, which flipped from AT40 70s to 80s about a year ago has added a few 90s tracks and even a few early 2000s as well. And they sound good on the station. But I just don't see the 90s sustaining as a format, ever. The 80s have been a strong spot in radio for 20 years now, shifting over the last 5-8 years from a Hot AC staple to a Classic Hits staple. I am honestly very curious where we go from here. But I don't think it's 90s based Classic Hits. And I sure as heck don't think it's Casey's Top 40 and AT40 with Shadoe Stevens shows reairing on the radio.
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Post by mkarns on May 11, 2016 20:24:48 GMT -5
I often hear long blocks of 90s music in bars, restaurants, and such, but it's mostly from the latter half of the decade, with very little from before 1993 or so. Much of what was most memorable or popular in the decade, including alt-rock, rap/hip-hop, and country, never made as much impact at CHR as was justified by album sales and airplay at other formats. That was especially so in the early 1990s; about 1994-95 or thereabouts CHR seemed to take on a more consistent sound and grew in popularity over the next several years. But I don't think that may be enough to sustain a 1990s-based format, though 90s music might well become a classic/variety hits mainstay when mixed with 1980s and 2000s; we've probably been seeing that at a fair number of stations which should increase with time.
Whether that will be enough to justify reairing actual countdowns from that period is unclear; if anyone (probably Premiere) ever does that they would likely have to keep other decades/eras as options as well, or offer an A/B choice for every show.
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Post by BrettVW on May 11, 2016 20:34:37 GMT -5
I would agree with that. I would say the second half of the decade is very nostalgic with us millennials. But that 1990-1993/94 stretch of time, outside of a few rock tracks, is just lost to time. I can't imagine any station wanting to air a countdown show from that time. And a show featuring music from the late 90s-early 00s is still CHR/HAC throwback material - and the playlist on something like that would be way too narrow for a countdown.
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Post by matt on May 11, 2016 21:40:18 GMT -5
Agreed. That said, there is no demand or money to be made in commercial radio for AT40 with Shadoe or 1990s Casey's Top 40. Here's a question, in particular maybe for you guys that know radio well...if there isn't any value in airing these on radio, then why not make them available via other means? Why not do what Rick Dees does and make the shows available on a website, even if it's just a show each week? It seems like they could throw the shows out on a website like that and make something off the banner ads, etc. Seems silly that these shows stay locked away (though I know we can purchase them from Shannon) with no good way for people to hear them, small as that group of people may be. Just curious... |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 4:37:59 GMT -5
Because even the shows from Dees that may be on 5 stations are still going out via terrestrial radio. They aren't putting them up for Internet use only. And even then, if you follow the Dees thread you'll notice it is (or was) the same shows ever year. Even they aren't spending time editing the shows to the length necessary for 2016 when they are making very little money doing so.
Now, I was going to respond to this last night but I was being attaked by ads not allowing me to access the site then so I will now. I do disagree with Brett on the idea that 90s will never be a classic hits radio format. Here's why. In 2000, I remember 80s stations popping up already. They were entering 20 years ago territory but 1989 was still 11 years ago...yet there these new format stations were. Later that year we had American Top 40 FB which granted didn't last but that was for a different reason than just low listenership. Shows were airing that were only 12-13 years old. I give this example because it is one of a decade where the music is loved by most people.
On the other hand, I do not remember at most any point in the 90s that same nostalgia for the 70s. That was prior to the Internet explosion so my world was condensed to the Jacksonville/Daytona Beach/Orlando area, but to my knowledge there wasn't a dominant 70s station there. Mix 105.1 did a 70s Saturday night block, WAPE in the late 90s had a 70s block it did for 3 hours on Friday afternoon, but there wasn't much else outside of AC and HAC playing a few of them. I even heard more than once "I hate 70s music" from people. So at least in my world the 70s wasn't really universally loved. But by the mid 2000s, greatest hits and classic hit stations were playing a lot more 70s. The 90s I think will fall into this category and I think you'll start to hear it sometime next decade.
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Post by BrettVW on May 12, 2016 8:42:07 GMT -5
Agreed. That said, there is no demand or money to be made in commercial radio for AT40 with Shadoe or 1990s Casey's Top 40. Here's a question, in particular maybe for you guys that know radio well...if there isn't any value in airing these on radio, then why not make them available via other means? Why not do what Rick Dees does and make the shows available on a website, even if it's just a show each week? It seems like they could throw the shows out on a website like that and make something off the banner ads, etc. Seems silly that these shows stay locked away (though I know we can purchase them from Shannon) with no good way for people to hear them, small as that group of people may be. Just curious... It all comes down to copyrights. Whether a show is airing on radio, available online for streaming, or available for sale via a legal source such as Shannon Lynn's Charis Music Group, somehow and someway copyright issues for both the music and show/host content is being taken care of. In the case of the AT40 shows, I know there has to be money going to Billboard as well. It all comes down to those who own the shows making decisions on how they are redistributed. The likely answer then becomes, if there isn't value in airing them on radio, is there really value in spending the money and resources to have them available via the internet? I'm sure it costs a decent amount of money to re-air the old AT40 shows, but those shows have proven to be tremendously successful and profitable for Premiere. Having a website that had other shows available on demand would likely not prove to be nearly as profitable, as the core audience, even if we paid, wouldn't make up the costs to acquire the rights to have the shows available. |
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Post by BrettVW on May 12, 2016 8:45:41 GMT -5
Now, I was going to respond to this last night but I was being attaked by ads not allowing me to access the site then so I will now. I do disagree with Brett on the idea that 90s will never be a classic hits radio format. Here's why. In 2000, I remember 80s stations popping up already. They were entering 20 years ago territory but 1989 was still 11 years ago...yet there these new format stations were. Later that year we had American Top 40 FB which granted didn't last but that was for a different reason than just low listenership. Shows were airing that were only 12-13 years old. I give this example because it is one of a decade where the music is loved by most people. On the other hand, I do not remember at most any point in the 90s that same nostalgia for the 70s. That was prior to the Internet explosion so my world was condensed to the Jacksonville/Daytona Beach/Orlando area, but to my knowledge there wasn't a dominant 70s station there. Mix 105.1 did a 70s Saturday night block, WAPE in the late 90s had a 70s block it did for 3 hours on Friday afternoon, but there wasn't much else outside of AC and HAC playing a few of them. I even heard more than once "I hate 70s music" from people. So at least in my world the 70s wasn't really universally loved. But by the mid 2000s, greatest hits and classic hit stations were playing a lot more 70s. The 90s I think will fall into this category and I think you'll start to hear it sometime next decade. I had the same weird issues with being attacked by ads last night too. As I said, I could be 100% wrong on this. I remember in the late 90s (even into 2000) our Hot AC station in Cleveland had a 70s and Disco Saturday night. Those same Hot AC stations are now having 90s/early 2000s specialty blocks (see Mix 105.1 who recently flipped Friday Night 80s into Friday Night 90s) - the kicker being the vast majority of songs you hear on Friday Night 90s are from the second half of the decade. Even with the resurgence, and now slow fall of 70s on Classic Hits, you weren't hearing the whole decade, as it always was very rock and disco based. Ballads and AC leaning stuff hasn't been touched (and rightfully so) - so there is potential to have a 90s based format focused solely on certain aspects of the decade. Only time will tell. |
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Post by matt on May 12, 2016 9:44:26 GMT -5
Here's a question, in particular maybe for you guys that know radio well...if there isn't any value in airing these on radio, then why not make them available via other means? Why not do what Rick Dees does and make the shows available on a website, even if it's just a show each week? It seems like they could throw the shows out on a website like that and make something off the banner ads, etc. Seems silly that these shows stay locked away (though I know we can purchase them from Shannon) with no good way for people to hear them, small as that group of people may be. Just curious... It all comes down to copyrights. Whether a show is airing on radio, available online for streaming, or available for sale via a legal source such as Shannon Lynn's Charis Music Group, somehow and someway copyright issues for both the music and show/host content is being taken care of. In the case of the AT40 shows, I know there has to be money going to Billboard as well. It all comes down to those who own the shows making decisions on how they are redistributed. The likely answer then becomes, if there isn't value in airing them on radio, is there really value in spending the money and resources to have them available via the internet? I'm sure it costs a decent amount of money to re-air the old AT40 shows, but those shows have proven to be tremendously successful and profitable for Premiere. Having a website that had other shows available on demand would likely not prove to be nearly as profitable, as the core audience, even if we paid, wouldn't make up the costs to acquire the rights to have the shows available. Thanks--that makes sense, and that's where I'm not knowledgeable enough to know all the costs that go into making a show available, be it on the radio or an internet stream. I do know that it's a business though, and at the end of the day it all comes down to what makes money and what doesn't. I'm curious as to what happens with 90's music as well. I feel like there was a lot of good music in the 90's, it's just that much of it wasn't being played on CHR/Top 40 radio. I think the reasons for this have been discussed ad nauseum on this site--fracturing of the format, fracturing of demographics, etc. But Brett and Paul both make good points...I too remember that the 70's and disco were a punchline throughout the 80's and much of the 90's, but all of us sudden came back to classic hits radio in the last 15-20 years. You feel like at some point, those that grew up on 90's hits will hear them again and have a renewed interest and nostalgic feelings for some of those songs. However, which songs and how many of them hold up over 20-30 years is the question. It will probably be a subset of the 90's CHR catalog, but there will be a number of songs that will be ignored, and rightfully so for many of them. |
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Post by mkarns on May 12, 2016 10:59:21 GMT -5
Now, I was going to respond to this last night but I was being attaked by ads not allowing me to access the site then so I will now. I do disagree with Brett on the idea that 90s will never be a classic hits radio format. Here's why. In 2000, I remember 80s stations popping up already. They were entering 20 years ago territory but 1989 was still 11 years ago...yet there these new format stations were. Later that year we had American Top 40 FB which granted didn't last but that was for a different reason than just low listenership. Shows were airing that were only 12-13 years old. I give this example because it is one of a decade where the music is loved by most people. On the other hand, I do not remember at most any point in the 90s that same nostalgia for the 70s. That was prior to the Internet explosion so my world was condensed to the Jacksonville/Daytona Beach/Orlando area, but to my knowledge there wasn't a dominant 70s station there. Mix 105.1 did a 70s Saturday night block, WAPE in the late 90s had a 70s block it did for 3 hours on Friday afternoon, but there wasn't much else outside of AC and HAC playing a few of them. I even heard more than once "I hate 70s music" from people. So at least in my world the 70s wasn't really universally loved. But by the mid 2000s, greatest hits and classic hit stations were playing a lot more 70s. The 90s I think will fall into this category and I think you'll start to hear it sometime next decade. I had the same weird issues with being attacked by ads last night too. As I said, I could be 100% wrong on this. I remember in the late 90s (even into 2000) our Hot AC station in Cleveland had a 70s and Disco Saturday night. Those same Hot AC stations are now having 90s/early 2000s specialty blocks (see Mix 105.1 who recently flipped Friday Night 80s into Friday Night 90s) - the kicker being the vast majority of songs you hear on Friday Night 90s are from the second half of the decade. Even with the resurgence, and now slow fall of 70s on Classic Hits, you weren't hearing the whole decade, as it always was very rock and disco based. Ballads and AC leaning stuff hasn't been touched (and rightfully so) - so there is potential to have a 90s based format focused solely on certain aspects of the decade. Only time will tell. The dominance of 1980s music at Classic/Variety Hits also doesn't hit everything in the decade. We've often discussed here the relative lack of songs from the (numerical) start of the decade, and to a somewhat lesser degree I think that's also true for its end as well (which spills into the neglected early 1990s). What does get a lot of play is mostly what was popular on MTV/AOR/CHR from about 1982-87, which has the effect of neglecting many hit songs (some deservedly perhaps, some not) and at the same time making others seem much more popular and better known now than they actually were originally. |
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Post by mitchm on May 12, 2016 11:56:49 GMT -5
Excellent discussion, guys. I was hoping my comments from a few days ago would get some kind of a discussion going, more than just "the 90's ain't gonna happen, ever", and your comments have greatly exceeded my expectations. And my comment to you guys who love 80's music is don't be too smug about its staying power. I was born in the early 50's and my favorite music is from 64 to 67, and thirty years ago I switched from listening to Top 40 music to classic rock, which at that time was 1955-1975, and I was thinking it was great to be born in the middle of the baby boom generation because I "knew" that classic music from 55 to 75 would always be available on the radio because there were so many of us boomers around it would last for my lifetime. I didn't really believe that advertisers would start pulling the plug on us once we were no longer 18 to 49, the advertiser's preferred demographic. You can still find 60's music without trying too hard (thanks to the internet), but 50's music is much more difficult. You may not agree with me now, but when you are 55+, take a look around, things will be different. The 80's eventually will fall to where the 50's and 60's are now. The 90's may never be as popular as the 80's, but they will get their time in the sun and I believe it will be sooner rather than later. Time marches on.
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Post by BrettVW on May 12, 2016 13:12:38 GMT -5
I think the biggest difference between the 80s and every other decade of pop music on radio is that the 80s never really went away. With the format fracturing of the early 90s, 80s made a natural transition from currents to the AC/Hot AC formats and had an awesome run there. Many Hot AC stations had a good 15 year run of success with the 80s being more of a focus than the current Hot AC music. A prime example of this is WMVX in Cleveland. In the last 5-10 years, the 80s have naturally moved from AC/HAC to Classic Hits, but have remained dominant on the radio. If, in another 5-10 years, the 80s start to fade like a good chunk of the 70s are now, it will be the first time the 80s wont necessarily have a home on commercial radio.
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Post by BrettVW on May 12, 2016 13:14:39 GMT -5
I also think the Variety Hits format on stations like WQSR, WODC, and WHLK (which is the current incarnation of the former WMVX in Cleveland that I mentioned above) and the Classic Hits format will start to sound more and more alike as time goes on. The only major difference now is Variety Hits has a larger focus on 90s and the 2000s whereas Classic Hits does not. Some Variety Hits stations even play HAC currents.
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