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Post by dukelightning on Jan 7, 2022 17:56:07 GMT -5
I think it is because the 2 weeks that they were doing the year end countdown coincided with the 2 weeks that R&R did not publish an issue. Their hands were tied because if they diverged from following R&R's publishing schedule, there would have been a week where they had no chart to use for a countdown.
Meanwhile, as further proof that CT40 used R&R chart data, they answered a listener question about whether Michael Jackson was the only artist to hit #1 in the 70s, 80s and 90s by saying that Don Henley also did it. Casey said he hit in the 70s with "New Kid in Town", "Hotel California" and "Heartache Tonight", in the 80s with "The Long Run" and in the 90s in a duet with Patty Smythe on "Sometimes Love Just Aint Enough". "The Long Run" was only a #1 hit on R&R, not on the Hot 100. In fact, it did not even come close there! Btw, Casey also said Elton John would join this club if he hit #1. (He did not on R&R even though he logged 14 weeks at #1 on the Hot 100 with "Candle in the Wind/Something About the Way You Look Tonight").
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Post by Mike on Jan 7, 2022 18:12:28 GMT -5
I think it is because the 2 weeks that they were doing the year end countdown coincided with the 2 weeks that R&R did not publish an issue. Their hands were tied because if they diverged from following R&R's publishing schedule, there would have been a week where they had no chart to use for a countdown. I'm not completely sure if that lines up...R&R's last issue of 1992 was 12/18. If we go by that, then 12/26 and 1/2 should be considered the "off weeks". But if the publishing schedule instead means their issue dated December 18 would have been available any number of days before the 18th, then that lines up better. I can't think of how their schedule would have lined up though, RE: Issue date Vs. date of availability in real time.
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Post by dukelightning on Jan 7, 2022 18:31:58 GMT -5
I know the chart date was always 8 days later than the issue date. I also remember a few years ago when I was wondering about this type of thing, maybe in a different year, that the first regular show was using the chart from the last issue of the previous year. That means the 1/2/93 show has to be based on the chart in the 12/18/92 issue. Maybe this has something to do with when Casey and the staff wanted to take some time off for the holidays. They probably recorded the 1/2/93 show a few days before Christmas, allowing them to take a break into the new year.
Fans of the Spin Doctors' "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong" can thank a radio station in Vermont for making this a hit. After it's initial release did not make it a hit, they revived it. Their label had left them in the lurch after things seemed to peter out in favor of label mates Pearl Jam. They were right about Pearl Jam making it big but almost missed out on the Doctors.
I just looked into the chart date, issue situation further. Some years there were 2 weeks in which no issue was published. But most years only one week was there no issue published. 1992 was such a year. But the issue following the week with no issue was an issue solely devoted to the upcoming year, 1993. There were no charts in that issue. So they still had 2 weeks with no charts published. Ok! The chart date of 1/2/93 was from the 12/11/92 issue and the 1/9/93 chart was from the 12/18/92 issue. No issue was published on 12/25 and the 1/1/93 issue was the one devoted to 1993 with no charts. The 1/16/93 chart was from the next issue, dated 1/8/93.
I think they produced the year end show and the shows for 1/2 and 1/9/93 all within a period of days ending by about 12/19/92. That would leave them over 2 weeks off before it was time to produce the show for 1/16/93 around the 5th or 6th of January. So they would have over a week break between shows, for the holidays.
And upon further analysis, I see that the 1/16/93 show was done by Mark Elliott. So all of this was a way to get Casey a lot of time off. Now I say it was about 3 weeks between shows for Casey!
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Post by Mike on Jan 8, 2022 4:38:02 GMT -5
That means the 1/2/93 show has to be based on the chart in the 12/18/92 issue. Maybe this has something to do with when Casey and the staff wanted to take some time off for the holidays. They probably recorded the 1/2/93 show a few days before Christmas, allowing them to take a break into the new year. ... I think they produced the year end show and the shows for 1/2 and 1/9/93 all within a period of days ending by about 12/19/92. That would leave them over 2 weeks off before it was time to produce the show for 1/16/93 around the 5th or 6th of January. So they would have over a week break between shows, for the holidays. And upon further analysis, I see that the 1/16/93 show was done by Mark Elliott. So all of this was a way to get Casey a lot of time off. Now I say it was about 3 weeks between shows for Casey! All things considered, wanting to break for the holidays is what probably makes the most sense. And yeah, 8 days was the difference between R&R chart date and CT40 countdown date, when end-of-the-year situations weren't involved. Earlier this week I listened to AT40's 1/7/89, which contrasts directly with taking time off for the holidays. This is because the second LDD that week comes from Shadoe himself, dedicated to "Brother" John Rydgren, who like Shadoe was originally from Jamestown, ND and went on to become a big name in radio, with both also having much of their careers happen in L.A. But John died of a heart attack the day after Christmas - I don't see them being able to record that week's show, have it ready to ship, AND shipped out, all in that first week of January. Recording must have been done within those last 5 days of 1988 - or at a minimum, that was a last addition to that week's show.
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Post by dukelightning on Jan 8, 2022 8:07:46 GMT -5
^Or maybe because it was still early in Shadoe's hosting of AT40, he/they did not want him to take any time off.
Now I am listening to the AT40 from 1/11/03. Starts off with a song that reminds of the chart run of "I Wonder If I Take You Home". Peaked at 34 but spent 21 weeks on the chart. The analysis was that it was getting a lot of airplay and/or sales in certain parts of the country to spend that many weeks on the chart but not get very high on the chart. In this case, it is Norah Jones' "Don't Know Why" which drops from its #35 peak to 40. Spent 20 weeks on the chart which btw is only 50 positions or half the positions of the Hot 100 that Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam were on. I heard this song a lot back then. So I am less surprised that it spent 20 weeks on the chart as I am that it only reached #35. Next up was the first of 7 debuts by Three Doors Down, a future #1 hit that is my fave by them, "When I'm Gone". 7 debuts seems like a lot for the second run of AT40. Has to be near the record. They were spread out with the highest two being "Bump, Bump. Bump" by B2K at 23, one notch below the peak of their previous hit 'Uh-huh" and J Lo's "All I Have" at 20, headed to #1. Not headed to the top is the week's biggest mover "Cry Me a River" for Justin Timberlake, up 14 notches to #10. Both it and "Bump, Bump, Bump" stalled at #3. Casey mentioned that with Justin and JC Chasez both in the top 40, it was the first time since 1999 that two members of the same group were in the top 40. Must have been referring to members of a group that had not broken up because Kelly Rowland and Beyonce were both in the survey too.
This is the second show in a row I have heard in which Casey mentioned Madonna having the most top 10 hits of any female solo artist. In the CT40 from 1/9/93, he mentioned it because "Deeper and Deeper" climbed into the top 10 to give her 25 such hits. In this show, "Die Another Day" had already been in the top 10 giving her 36. But that is a mistake, this is actually her 37th top 10 hit using R&R chart data. She would have one more, in 2008. Btw, she has 38 top 10 hits as of now based on either R&R or Billboard.
Casey did a tribute to Joe Strummer of the Clash who had died just before Christmas. Played "Rock the Casbah". That and all 3 LDDs were from the 80s or early 90s. The LDDs were "Forever Young", "Like a Prayer" and "Everything I Do". Also played a clip of Fleetwood Mac's "Landslide" before playing the Dixie Chicks cover of it, another of the 7 debuts.
And it is another show with a long running #1 hit. Eminem spends an 8th week at #1 according to Casey with "Lose Yourself". R&R only credits him with 6 weeks so this confirms what was stated in the other thread that in the second run of AT40, Casey is crediting the frozen weeks. That's the way to do it. Heard this song a few times recently on a new station here. Called The Beat, Raleigh's #1 station for Throwbacks. They are playing R&B hits from the late 80s to the mid teens, but mostly from the 90s and 2000s. First station here in either a CHR or R&B genre that is playing oldies from that period. The station that plays the Premiere shows plays oldies from the 60, 70 and 80s(CHR). The more there are stations dedicated to playing mostly 90s and 2000s hits, the more likely the CT40 and second run AT40 shows will find their way to the airwaves, at least in theory.
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Post by Mike on Jan 8, 2022 8:20:34 GMT -5
7 debuts seems like a lot for the second run of AT40. Has to be near the record. That mark, I believe, goes to one of the shows we heard on WPNC that week in 2020 - 5/5/2001, which had eight.
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Post by dukelightning on Jan 8, 2022 8:38:12 GMT -5
^I would not be surprised if that is the record. A May show there. Went a month further into the year on this frigid morning. Maybe it will make me feel warmer. The AT40 from 6/20/92. Shadoe always has some interesting chart data to present and he starts with one...38 of the 40 hits changed positions. Reminds me of the 10/30/82 AT40 in which only one hit dropped within the 40 and that was "Jack and Diane" falling from 1 to 2.
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Post by dukelightning on Jan 8, 2022 10:06:01 GMT -5
I know in 1992 AT40 was using a chart weighted toward R&B. That explains why I heard a song that I could not identify by song title or group. Sounded like Shadoe said it was "New New" or "Nu Nu" by the Deltones or Deltowns. Could not find any title or artist by those names in my Joel Whitburn books, the R&R chart website(not surprising, I doubt they even made it onto that chart) or YouTube. Pretty rare for me to run into that type of thing listening to these shows! Following the biggest mover, "I'm Walkin" up 17 notches to #23 is "Baby Baby Baby" by TLC, up 14 notches to #22. That was after the song "TLC' by Linear and before another TLC song "Aint Too Proud to Beg" at 20. So three hits with the title or artist being 'TLC', all in the 20s!
Shadoe played "Hazard" and listed about 20 hits in which the title was simply a name of a city or town. Teased and I correctly figured out that the synthesizer whiz turned acoustic artist was Howard Jones. Flashback was back to 1965. Has to be one of the furthest back flashbacks he ever did. Probably did a week in 1964 when the Beatles were dominating the charts at some point, maybe that week they had the whole top 5. No Beatles in the top 5 this week in 1965 but Elvis, the Supremes and Four Tops(#1) were in it. Fave hit in this show has to be "Make It Happen". Guessing Mariah has one of the two hits that did not change its position with her other song "I'll Be There" that reached the top in its third week the previous week.
Another great song is "One" by U2. Another Richard Marx song was the LDD, "Keep Coming Back".
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Post by OnWithTheCountdown on Jan 8, 2022 10:48:18 GMT -5
Welcome back, dukelightning! I've enjoyed reading your in-depth posts about the shows you've listened to or are listening to. I listened to all the CT40 shows from 1992 in order a couple of years ago, since 2020's calendar is the same as 1992's (both including 2/29 show dates). Currently catching this weekend's Country Top 40 with Fitz, which is the first regular show this year. He's done a fine job carrying on the torch long carried by my favorite country countdown host, Bob Kingsley. (Speaking of Bob, I received his recently released Book Of Records. Looking forward to digging into that soon. I listened to the audiobook version just before Christmas; very glad I got these. Anyone interested, just go to the "Latest News" folder. Pete posted a link for both hardcover and audiobook versions.) I'm way behind on my 1981 and 1993 marathons. Still trying to recover from the move this past spring.
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Post by Michael1973 on Jan 8, 2022 10:49:06 GMT -5
Sounded like Shadoe said it was "New New" or "Nu Nu" by the Deltones or Deltowns. The song was Nu Nu by Lidell Townsell. It was one of a number of obscure urban/dance songs to hit AT40 in 1992. As I've previously stated, I never cared for that particular chart. They claimed it was more fitting because it was based solely on airplay, but it never really seemed to match what I was hearing on the radio at the time.
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Post by OnWithTheCountdown on Jan 8, 2022 10:51:16 GMT -5
Sounded like Shadoe said it was "New New" or "Nu Nu" by the Deltones or Deltowns. The song was Nu Nu by Lidell Townsell. It was one of a number of obscure urban/dance songs to hit AT40 in 1992. As I've previously stated, I never cared for that particular chart. They claimed it was more fitting because it was based solely on airplay, but it never really seemed to match what I was hearing on the radio at the time. Same here; I feel R&R had the more accurate chart, which I also started leaning more toward in 1990. I admit, partially biased because Casey was counting down those hits, but in no small part due to what I felt better reflected the popularity of the hits charting at the time.
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Post by dukelightning on Jan 8, 2022 11:29:08 GMT -5
Thanks both of you for the clarification and the shoutout! I see that "Nu Nu" did not chart on R&R which is no surprise. Even though I like R&B, I prefer the chart that R&R used. And that remained the case after AT40 switched charts in 1993. They essentially were punching a pillow with that change and still were not using a chart that reflected CHR radio as CT40 was. "Two Princes" as the #1 song of 1993. I don't think so! So the entire time that AT40 was around in the first run while Soundscan/BDS was the basis for the Hot 100, they always were using a chart that was inferior to the R&R chart CT40 used IMO.
OnWiththeCountdown, you did what Paul, his real name, I forgot his username, that I see has been deleted from the site, used to do. And that is to listen to shows in consecutive order. I don't do that because I don't like to hear the same songs week after week. But kudos to you for doing it that way!
Back to this AT40 show from 1992, Shadoe mentioned before Kris Kross' "Jump" that there had been two songs in 1984, another leap year like this one, with that title. Played clips of both but did not mention that Van Halen's "Jump" was #1 the week of Leap Day (its' second week on top). A big #1 hit from earlier this leap year but not early enough to have been #1 on Leap Day is "Save the Best for Last". Shadoe said it came within one week of tying the record for most weeks in the top 10 with its' 16 weeks. "How Deep is Your Love" is the record holder as he said. Of course this is an apples and oranges situation as the chart they were using is based on monitored airplay besides being urban oriented.
Another reference to the Bee Gees came when Shadoe talked about siblings being in the top 10 together in connection to Michael and Janet having "In the Closet" and "The Best Things in Life Are Free" in the top 10. The only other time it had happened was in 1978 when the Bee Gees had "Stayin Alive" in the top 10, in fact at #1, to be replaced by brother Andy's "Love is Thicker Than Water" at #1 which was then replaced by his brothers "Night Fever" there.
Another great song is "Wishing on a Star". That along with J Lo's "All I Have" that was in the 2003 show I heard earlier are covers of late 70s/early 80s hits. The originals both flopped but I think each are as worthy of being hits as these cover versions.
And now I find out what two hits are the only ones to remain in the same position. Both are #1 hits. The first is the most recent #1 hit "My Lovin", holding at #2 and the second is the one that displaced it, "I'll Be There", spending its second week on top. The record that Shadoe teased at the top of the show about it is that this is the first hit to reach #1 in both a studio and a live version. Of course the J5 had the studio version in 1970.
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Post by Mike on Jan 8, 2022 13:24:24 GMT -5
I know in 1992 AT40 was using a chart weighted toward R&B. Technically, that was the case...but the real story is that the stations that were already configured for airplay monitoring were heavily found in the bigger cities/markets. Guess what kinds of hits the big-city stations tended to favor? The song was Nu Nu by Lidell Townsell. It was one of a number of obscure urban/dance songs to hit AT40 in 1992. As I've previously stated, I never cared for that particular chart. They claimed it was more fitting because it was based solely on airplay, but it never really seemed to match what I was hearing on the radio at the time. Technically speaking, it was - but the problem was that it didn't have enough of an airplay composite for that to really be the case. The most likely reason for "AT40 not matching what people were hearing on radio" would be that it's a complaint coming from people who did not live in those biggest of big cities/the largest markets. (If memory serves, aren't you from upstate NY?) Same here; I feel R&R had the more accurate chart, which I also started leaning more toward in 1990. I admit, partially biased because Casey was counting down those hits, but in no small part due to what I felt better reflected the popularity of the hits charting at the time. PARTIALLY biased? Surely you jest! I don't think either one truly nailed it until later in the decade - Billboard had the accurate methodology, but not enough stations for it to realize its full potential until later. R&R had enough stations, but with playlists not being the accurate methodology.
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Post by dukelightning on Jan 8, 2022 13:29:43 GMT -5
Well into another show, this one from 7/28/90. Mark Elliott is doing CT40. About halfway through the show and my fave song so far debuted at 39..."Epic". Mark mentioned how the only time that all the members of one group were in the top 40 at the same time happened in December 1974 when the 4 Beatles did it. This week the next closest to that happening has occurred. 5 of the current and former members of New Edition are in the survey. Bell Biv Devoe which represents three current members are in with "Poison". Johnny Gill has "Rub You the Right Way" while former member Bobby Brown has "She Aint Worth It" with Glenn Medeiros. The only member not in the top 40 is Ralph Tresvant. Btw, he will have a hit later in the year. This is another show where a song title and artist name are the same. The band Poison was 3 notches higher than the song "Poison".
Mark said in the intro to Aerosmith that their first top 40 hit came in 1976. That means he is basing it on the R&R chart as they did hit the Hot 100 top 40 a year earlier. Makes you wonder if his statement about the four Beatles being in the top 40 together in 1974 was also based on R&R chart data. They barely accomplished that on the Hot 100 with John Lennon at #40 when it happened.
Checked it and they did accomplish it on the R&R chart as well. George Harrison was #40 btw.
Told the story of Zager and Evans being the biggest one hit wonder. After "In the Year 2525" became a huge hit, they decided that it was not the sound they wanted to record. So they ended their recording career at that point. A lot of one hit wonders. I wonder how many are in this category of never even attempting a followup hit. Three more years and we will be 500 years away from that year!
At #1 was "She Aint Worth It" and Mark told how Glenn Medeiros' 1987 hit "Never Gonna Change My Love for You" was a huge hit in Europe, #2 for the year in the UK and in France. But it was a ballad and he realized that a lot of the hits in America of late you could dance to. So he changed his sound to a danceable beat and this was the result. Of course he would not get another hit. Probably had more hits in Europe.
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Post by Shadoe Fan on Jan 8, 2022 19:53:41 GMT -5
Flashback was back to 1965. Has to be one of the furthest back flashbacks he ever did. Probably did a week in 1964 when the Beatles were dominating the charts at some point, maybe that week they had the whole top 5. The farthest back a Flashback was done was to 1940! It was done for the 50th Anniversary of Billboard's Pop Singles Chart on the July 21, 1990 show. The next oldest was 1962.
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