How rare was this prior to the slow moving charts?

[Deleted]

The show from 20 years this week featured the entire top 8 staying the same. I know it happened sometimes on billboards chart but was this a rarity in this era on R&R?

[mkarns]

I don't remember the whole top 8 or more staying the same often on R&R/Mediabase, but something close to it did happen quite a bit after R&R changed its methodology in 1994, which resulted in a lot of slower movement; often half or more of the top 10 would be the same. But in 1993 that probably was a rarity.

I seem to recall some Seacrest AT40s, including at least one recent one, where little or nothing in the top 10 changed, but I'd have to do some detailed looking up.

[Shadoe Fan]

The charts started to slow down in 1993 even though they hadn't made the chart change yet. I remember discussing in a news group (remember those?!) how songs were starting to spend 20 weeks in the top 40, which was very rare at the time.

[Deleted]

Yeah I can see that. You were pretty weak even at #1 then if you spent just a week or 2 there. #2s were hanging there for weeks on end too. I also remember that for several years it seemed if you got stuck at #2 for a second week that was the kiss of death. You never hit #1. But that began to change also before the 1994 methodology change.

And yes, I remember newsgroups. I think some may still exist in some form or another.

[dukelightning]

Actually if you are talking about AT40, the charts started slowing down a little earlier. I am listening to the 12/5/92 show and Shadoe just played "Just Another Day" and mentioned that its 29 weeks on AT40 is the record for longevity on AT40. The previous record holder was "How Deep is Your Love" with 26 weeks. Of course they are no longer using the Hot 100 so HDIYL is the record holder for that chart (before Soundscan).

[Deleted]

We are talking about R&R. AT40s chart slowed to a crawl when they switched charts in Nov 1991.

[Hervard]

Oct 11, 2013 17:52:18 GMT -5 Shadoe Fan said:

The charts started to slow down in 1993 even though they hadn't made the chart change yet. I remember discussing in a news group (remember those?!) how songs were starting to spend 20 weeks in the top 40, which was very rare at the time.

And I think that you or someone else mentioned that the reason for the slowdown in 1993 was because more and more stations were reporting their monitored playlists to R&R around that time. It became noticeable in 1992, when several chart oddities occurred, such as songs that had previously been descending the charts in holding position on the chart (i.e. "Save The Best For Last" and "Baby Got Back") and one song actually moved back up ("Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me"). Also, Jon Secada's "Just Another Day" became the first songs since 1978 to spend more than seventeen weeks on the chart, and "End Of The Road" by Boyz II Men spent 18 weeks on the chart a few months later. And, of course, in 1993, a whole slew of song spent that long on the charts, with a few songs even making it to 20 weeks. I've always wondered what would have happened if the PPW era had held off for a few years. Certainly some song would have spent more than 22 weeks on the chart, beating the record held by "Love Will Keep Us Together" by Captain & Tennille.

[woolebull]

Oct 12, 2013 11:30:54 GMT -5 Hervard said:

Oct 11, 2013 17:52:18 GMT -5 Shadoe Fan said:

The charts started to slow down in 1993 even though they hadn't made the chart change yet. I remember discussing in a news group (remember those?!) how songs were starting to spend 20 weeks in the top 40, which was very rare at the time.

And I think that you or someone else mentioned that the reason for the slowdown in 1993 was because more and more stations were reporting their monitored playlists to R&R around that time. It became noticeable in 1992, when several chart oddities occurred, such as songs that had previously been descending the charts in holding position on the chart (i.e. "Save The Best For Last" and "Baby Got Back") and one song actually moved back up ("Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me"). Also, Jon Secada's "Just Another Day" became the first songs since 1978 to spend more than seventeen weeks on the chart, and "End Of The Road" by Boyz II Men spent 18 weeks on the chart a few months later. And, of course, in 1993, a whole slew of song spent that long on the charts, with a few songs even making it to 20 weeks. I've always wondered what would have happened if the PPW era had held off for a few years. Certainly some song would have spent more than 22 weeks on the chart, beating the record held by "Love Will Keep Us Together" by Captain & Tennille.

Speaking of Captain and Tennille and weeks on the chart, didn't "Do That To Me One More Time" spend more than 17 weeks on the Top 40 in 1979/80? I can think of quite a few songs that spent more than seventeen weeks on the chart after 1978 through 1983. "Hurts So Good" almost did that in the Top 10 alone. But I'm not trying to take away from your excellent point that it was quite a rarity, especially in the 10 years prior to 1993.

[jebsib]

Was anyone listening actively to Top 40 radio from the 1970s through the 90s?

If so, did you physically notice the slowdown? I seem to recall the pattern of releases being fairly steady through the 80s (i.e.: A new single every 12 weeks for superstar acts), and with the odd exception, songs would be played to death over a 3 month cycle and very rarely played again.

But by the early 90s, suddenly there were a lot more recurrents; Songs would be played longer; and by the mid 90s, it was not uncommon for a superstar act (like Celine Dion or Madonna) to release only three singles a year.

Was this just where I was living, or was the release pattern somehow slower? And probably hive-mind influenced by the charts themselves?

[Deleted]

I've begun to notice something in the last month or so of these shows from 93. I'm not seeing a lot of the same egregious differences. Yes, there are still some (one is going to be #1 for awhile now) but it's not like a few months ago when 7 was around into May or June IIRC, and I'd Die Without You, Do You Believe in Us, and even Come Undone were around forever. The first few months of the year I felt like I was hearing "a history of the last year of pop music."

[marathon69]

Oct 22, 2013 15:44:42 GMT -5 jebsib said:

Was anyone listening actively to Top 40 radio from the 1970s through the 90s?

If so, did you physically notice the slowdown? I seem to recall the pattern of releases being fairly steady through the 80s (i.e.: A new single every 12 weeks for superstar acts), and with the odd exception, songs would be played to death over a 3 month cycle and very rarely played again.

But by the early 90s, suddenly there were a lot more recurrents; Songs would be played longer; and by the mid 90s, it was not uncommon for a superstar act (like Celine Dion or Madonna) to release only three singles a year.

Was this just where I was living, or was the release pattern somehow slower? And probably hive-mind influenced by the charts themselves?

Yeah, I have been. The very first Top 40 Countdown I remember listening to, the #1 song was Manfred Mann's "Blinded By The Light". In the total 80s and 90s, I could probably count on one hand the number of weekends I missed a Top 40. Around 200 I stopped, because by then the vast majority of songs that made the chart were just not to my liking anymore.

Over the years the rate of turnover on charts seemed to fluctuate considerably. By the R&R chart, the mid-1980s seemed to be the period where chart turnover was highest, with the peak being 1986, where 30 songs spent at least 1 week at #1. After REO Speedwagon's "Can't Fight This Feeling" in early 1985, it would be 3 years before a song manage 4 weeks at #1, when George Michael's "Father Figure" did so. In the mid-1980s, a chart stay of 13 or 14 weeks was solid, and 15 weeks was absolutely remarkable. Songs stayed around longer earlier in the 1980s, evident in the fact that even though the R&R chart was only a Top 30 for the first third of the decade of the 1980s, the total weeks on the chart in that Top 30 period tended to outpace songs Top 40 stay later in the decade.

It was sometime in 1991 that songs seemed to noticeably be staying around longer as a rule.

[marathon69]

Oct 11, 2013 19:07:09 GMT -5 @paul said:

Yeah I can see that. You were pretty weak even at #1 then if you spent just a week or 2 there. #2s were hanging there for weeks on end too. I also remember that for several years it seemed if you got stuck at #2 for a second week that was the kiss of death. You never hit #1. But that began to change also before the 1994 methodology change.

And yes, I remember newsgroups. I think some may still exist in some form or another.

There were several songs that managed to get to #1 after being parked at #2, even during the high turnover mid-1980s.

In 1985, Madonna' "Crazy For You" soared up the chart but had to wait at #2 for two weeks because "We Are The World" climbed even faster. SHe had just had to do the same thing less than two months earlier while "Material Girl" waited for REO Speedwagon's "Can't Fight This Feeling" to get out.

Also in 1985,

"The Power Of Love" from Huey Lewis stalled at #2 for 2 weeks while Tears For Fear's "Shout" finished up, and then John Parr's "St. Elmo's Fire" spent 3 weeks at #2 waiting for Huey to drop.

Stevie Wonder's "Part Time Lover" waited at #2 for a-ha's "Take On Me"

Mr. Mister's "Broken Wings" waited at #2 for Phil Collins and Marilyn Martin's "Separate Lives"

In 1986,

Patti Labelle and Michael McDonald's waited at #2 for Madonna's "Live To Tell.

Peter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer" waited on his former band's "Invisible Touch"

Then, Genesis were the one's waiting while "Throwing It All Away" parked at #2 until Huey Lewis' "Stuck With You" finished up.

In 1987,

Starship's "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now" sat at #2 under Club Nouveau's "Lean On Me", and U2's "With Or Without You" waited for Cutting Crew's "(I Just) Died In Your Arms".

Probably the biggest bottleneck of the mid-80s was in the summer of 1987, when Whitney Houston's "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" held back Heart's "Alone" which held back Bob Seger's "Shakedown". Heart and BOb Seger both finally got to #1, and Bob Seger in particular had staying power, with his Top 5 chartpath being 5-3-3-2-2-1-4. He hit the Top 5 the week Whitney hit #1, and waited out her 3 week stay and Heart's 2 week stay before having one of his own.