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Post by brownjb81 on Aug 12, 2013 23:06:42 GMT -5
What do you think would have happened to American Top 40 if Casey had stayed with the show and didn't leave the show in 1988? I'm thinking that things might've turned out differently. Maybe ABC-Watermark might have done the same thing that Premiere Radio did when Casey was replaced by Ryan Seacrest in 2004, and had Casey host the AC and Hot AC version of the show and let Casey decide if he wanted to continue to host AT40. Maybe ABC might've gone in a different direction. Who knows!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 3:47:59 GMT -5
I think at some point AT40 would have stopped using Billboard. And I don't mean the Hot 100, I mean entirely. If they did so, then Casey Kasem could have done an AC/HAC show. BB was the reason they didn't. They didn't want to pay royalties on using two different charts. I do not think it would have ever ended and it thus would truly have a 43 year history at this point. Very possible that Ryan Seacrest would be the host now still.
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Post by beegee3 on Aug 16, 2013 12:13:03 GMT -5
Well, the big thing is that if Casey wouldn't have left he wouldn't have had Casey Kasem to compete against. If, for example, Shadoe Stevens started a competing countdown using Radio & Records called "Shadoe's Top 40," I have no doubt AT40 would still be "the" countdown, even using the Hot 100. I didn't really buy the argument how all these stations demanded the change of charts to get rid of rap and rock. I seem to recall Nirvana, Metallica, Snoop Dogg, and Dr. Dre on Casey's Top 40, and that was plenty popular.
The Hot 100 would probably have worked until maybe 1993-1994, when "Mr. Jones" became so big and signaled the start of radio hits regularly not being released as singles. Maybe AT40 could have worked around that with something like an "AT40 Airplay Extra," to include the Top 40 airplay songs on the countdown. A feature like that might have even prompted Billboard to change their airplay-only songs being included on the Hot 100 policy sooner than 1998, if listeners questioned why those radio songs weren't among "the most popular." After all, since people made such complaints about Michael Jackson's songs being ineligible to chart after his death, even though they were among the week's best sellers, they changed that policy in time to let Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You" rechart after her passing.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 12:22:46 GMT -5
Well, the big thing is that if Casey wouldn't have left he wouldn't have had Casey Kasem to compete against. If, for example, Shadoe Stevens started a competing countdown using Radio & Records called "Shadoe's Top 40," I have no doubt AT40 would still be "the" countdown, even using the Hot 100. I didn't really buy the argument how all these stations demanded the change of charts to get rid of rap and rock. I seem to recall Nirvana, Metallica, Snoop Dogg, and Dr. Dre on Casey's Top 40, and that was plenty popular. The Hot 100 would probably have worked until maybe 1993-1994, when "Mr. Jones" became so big and signaled the start of radio hits regularly not being released as singles. Maybe AT40 could have worked around that with something like an "AT40 Airplay Extra," to include the Top 40 airplay songs on the countdown. A feature like that might have even prompted Billboard to change their airplay-only songs being included on the Hot 100 policy sooner than 1998, if listeners questioned why those radio songs weren't among "the most popular." After all, since people made such complaints about Michael Jackson's songs being ineligible to chart after his death, even though they were among the week's best sellers, they changed that policy in time to let Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You" rechart after her passing. Just my thoughts. Yes but you never heard Dr Dre, Tag Team, etc in the Top Ten when most of the stations airing this show would have had to deal with that. "Whoomp There It Is" sitting at #2 for awhile and all over the chart being aired on stations barely playing it wasn't going to work. That's the issue. If a lot of these songs are hovering in the 20s and 30s that's one thing. Top 10 is something entirely different. Now you are having someone basically announce "this is a huge hit and your station isn't playing it." That's going to get the show kicked off the station if if happens enough, So, no the Hot 100 issue wasn't a small one. |
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Post by mkarns on Aug 16, 2013 13:51:11 GMT -5
Well, the big thing is that if Casey wouldn't have left he wouldn't have had Casey Kasem to compete against. If, for example, Shadoe Stevens started a competing countdown using Radio & Records called "Shadoe's Top 40," I have no doubt AT40 would still be "the" countdown, even using the Hot 100. I didn't really buy the argument how all these stations demanded the change of charts to get rid of rap and rock. I seem to recall Nirvana, Metallica, Snoop Dogg, and Dr. Dre on Casey's Top 40, and that was plenty popular. The Hot 100 would probably have worked until maybe 1993-1994, when "Mr. Jones" became so big and signaled the start of radio hits regularly not being released as singles. Maybe AT40 could have worked around that with something like an "AT40 Airplay Extra," to include the Top 40 airplay songs on the countdown. A feature like that might have even prompted Billboard to change their airplay-only songs being included on the Hot 100 policy sooner than 1998, if listeners questioned why those radio songs weren't among "the most popular." After all, since people made such complaints about Michael Jackson's songs being ineligible to chart after his death, even though they were among the week's best sellers, they changed that policy in time to let Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You" rechart after her passing. Just my thoughts. Yes but you never heard Dr Dre, Tag Team, etc in the Top Ten when most of the stations airing this show would have had to deal with that. "Whoomp There It Is" sitting at #2 for awhile and all over the chart being aired on stations barely playing it wasn't going to work. That's the issue. If a lot of these songs are hovering in the 20s and 30s that's one thing. Top 10 is something entirely different. Now you are having someone basically announce "this is a huge hit and your station isn't playing it." That's going to get the show kicked off the station if if happens enough, So, no the Hot 100 issue wasn't a small one. I remember an edition of "Billboard's Hottest Hot 100 Hits" had "Whoomp! There It Is" as the #1 Hot 100 hit of all time. One of those "huh?" moments. The song was a huge singles seller, yes, and was briefly a much-used catchphrase, but biggest hit EVER? Still, while ephemeral, it was popular; as you say by 1994 the increasing non-release of singles rendered the Hot 100 almost completely irrelevant related to what stations airing countdowns were playing and listeners were hearing. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 14:15:19 GMT -5
Yes but you never heard Dr Dre, Tag Team, etc in the Top Ten when most of the stations airing this show would have had to deal with that. "Whoomp There It Is" sitting at #2 for awhile and all over the chart being aired on stations barely playing it wasn't going to work. That's the issue. If a lot of these songs are hovering in the 20s and 30s that's one thing. Top 10 is something entirely different. Now you are having someone basically announce "this is a huge hit and your station isn't playing it." That's going to get the show kicked off the station if if happens enough, So, no the Hot 100 issue wasn't a small one. I remember an edition of "Billboard's Hottest Hot 100 Hits" had "Whoomp! There It Is" as the #1 Hot 100 hit of all time. One of those "huh?" moments. The song was a huge singles seller, yes, and was briefly a much-used catchphrase, but biggest hit EVER? Still, while ephemeral, it was popular; as you say by 1994 the increasing non-release of singles rendered the Hot 100 almost completely irrelevant related to what stations airing countdowns were playing and listeners were hearing. I had that book! Yes it was a joke! |
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Post by bandit73 on Aug 29, 2013 17:49:11 GMT -5
I know radio stations hated using the Hot 100, but AT40 might have still been popular enough to get away with using it much longer than they did. I think they would have switched in 1996 because of that awful Telecommunications Act of that year that lifted ownership caps. Once that happened, it became much rarer to hear different kinds of music on the same station.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2013 18:18:28 GMT -5
I know radio stations hated using the Hot 100, but AT40 might have still been popular enough to get away with using it much longer than they did. I think they would have switched in 1996 because of that awful Telecommunications Act of that year that lifted ownership caps. Once that happened, it became much rarer to hear different kinds of music on the same station. They would have switched LONG before 1996 if they wanted to survive. Casey as host or not, countdowns were becoming less important in terms of programming and then playing a bunch of music stations weren't playing and if they were not to the # these songs were reaching? No way. Dees's show would have long taken over for stations wanting countdowns and AT40 would have been at deaths door. AT40 HAD to change and do so really before they did but regardless they had to when they did. As I've said, it's mistake was using Billboard at all after that. |
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Post by beegee3 on Sept 9, 2013 13:31:27 GMT -5
I know radio stations hated using the Hot 100, but AT40 might have still been popular enough to get away with using it much longer than they did. I think they would have switched in 1996 because of that awful Telecommunications Act of that year that lifted ownership caps. Once that happened, it became much rarer to hear different kinds of music on the same station. They would have switched LONG before 2006 if they wanted to survive. Casey as host or not, countdowns were becoming less important in terms of programming and then playing a bunch of music stations weren't playing and if they were not to the # these songs were reaching? No way. Dees's show would have long taken over for stations wanting countdowns and AT40 would have been at deaths door. AT40 HAD to change and do so really before they did but regardless they had to when they did. As I've said, it's mistake was using Billboard at all after that. Paul (or anyone else), do you know WHY radio changed in the late 1980s? My understanding is radio programmers used to use the charts to see what was becoming popular in order to add those songs to their playlists. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's how I thought it worked. If so, what changed in the late 1980s so that radio stations went from, "Wow, that new Duran Duran song debuted in the Top 40 of the Hot 100 this week, I'd better add it to our playlists" to "Hey, that new Sir Mix-A-Lot song hit the Top 10 of the Hot 100 this week, I'd better find a new chart that says Jon Secada is in the Top 10, because that's what I want to play." Not to be dense, but if a lot of people are buying a song, wouldn't that be a sign to radio that people WANT to hear it? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2013 13:49:31 GMT -5
Stations began to fragment, meaning they played a specific area of Top 40 as opposed to all of it. So a station in New Orleans might have leaned to playing more dance. A station in Orlando lean more Hot AC style (before the format truly existed). Still another in Atlanta could have leaned more urban. Tastes changed in music. I think a lot of that came from the changing world of radio in a day and age where a large percentage of the population Top 40 stations targeted were watching MTV most of the time to get their music and not listening to them. But there could be other reasons too. I know by mid-91 I had returned to radio being the predominant medium I heard music from on a regular basis (not just the weekend countdowns) and the stuff on MTV by then in large part I didn't have any idea what it was. It was heavy in alternative and hip hop, light on what was actually popular on the radio. In some markets that was fine, but others may have felt the need to skew their playlists to more one format or another in order to survive.
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Post by 1finemrg on Sept 12, 2013 16:17:25 GMT -5
bump
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Post by adam31 on Nov 24, 2013 2:04:36 GMT -5
I'm listening to some of the early 2000s AT40s and it surprises me how much rap there was in those shows. Can't think that staying with the Hot 100 could have been any worse.
Listening to Casey intro titles such as 50 Cent "P.I.M.P" is quite amusing. Probably helped the decision of him leaving as AT40 host in early in 2004.
In fact, the current Hot 100 would probably work now for AT40 with Ryan Seacrest. I think it was more about how much Billboard was charging to use the chart rather than the music contained within.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 9:49:12 GMT -5
I'm listening to some of the early 2000s AT40s and it surprises me how much rap there was in those shows. Can't think that staying with the Hot 100 could have been any worse. Listening to Casey intro titles such as 50 Cent "P.I.M.P" is quite amusing. Probably helped the decision of him leaving as AT40 host in early in 2004. In fact, the current Hot 100 would probably work now for AT40 with Ryan Seacrest. I think it was more about how much Billboard was charging to use the chart rather than the music contained within. To the latter point, no it wasn't. R&R had worked for years by then so why change again? If it was that important WW1 would have wanted BB when AT40 ceased. They didn't. I do not believe they would have switched even if it were free. And they certainly aren't going to do it now. To the former point or points, because a quick check of 11/22/03 sees I believe 13 songs that weren't even on AT40 at that point and several of which never made it. "Rap" in general wasn't the problems. Songs charting that were not getting a drop of airplay on stations was. Most of the time it was rap that wasn't but just because rap/hip hop became more pervasive in CHR did not mean the Hot 100 was anymore acceptable in 2003 than in 1991. Why? Look at the positions of said top 40 and compare to AT40 then. Holidae Inn is at #3. It had just entered AT40 two weeks earlier. Stations aren't going to air a countdown show with songs everywhere they don't play and routinely has songs near the top they are barely or have just started playing. Every so often? Ok. I get it. That happens. All the time? No. |
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Post by rayshae3 on Nov 24, 2013 12:27:15 GMT -5
I'm listening to some of the early 2000s AT40s and it surprises me how much rap there was in those shows. Can't think that staying with the Hot 100 could have been any worse. Listening to Casey intro titles such as 50 Cent "P.I.M.P" is quite amusing. Probably helped the decision of him leaving as AT40 host in early in 2004. In fact, the current Hot 100 would probably work now for AT40 with Ryan Seacrest. I think it was more about how much Billboard was charging to use the chart rather than the music contained within. To the latter point, no it wasn't. R&R had worked for years by then so why change again? If it was that important WW1 would have wanted BB when AT40 ceased. They didn't. I do not believe they would have switched even if it were free. And they certainly aren't going to do it now. Also, R&R was purchased and owned by WW1 in 1987. And by then the entire Westwood one countdown shows (Top 40, country or urban chart shows) were using the R&R charts. |
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Post by adam31 on Nov 25, 2013 3:14:45 GMT -5
To the latter point, no it wasn't. R&R had worked for years by then so why change again? If it was that important WW1 would have wanted BB when AT40 ceased. They didn't. I do not believe they would have switched even if it were free. And they certainly aren't going to do it now. Also, R&R was purchased and owned by WW1 in 1987. And by then the entire Westwood one countdown shows (Top 40, country or urban chart shows) were using the R&R charts. I did not know that R&R was purchased by Westwood One. Thank you for that tidbit! Paul has some good points also, but at least if AT40 would have stayed with the Hot 100, the show would have had a consistent history and more chart factoids, history, and trivia could have been presented in a believable way. |
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