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Post by slf on Jun 10, 2019 19:29:06 GMT -5
I remember reading in Tommy James' book that Roulette Records head (and mobster) Morris Levy had a long-running vendetta against 'Billboard'. He was certain that the magazine had unfairly robbed TJ and the Shondells of two #1 chartings, "I Think We're Alone now" and "Mony, Mony". Funny how the remakes ended up hitting #1 (and back-to-back, no less). Also, not only were they #1 back-to-back: -they entered the Top 40 the same week (9/26/1987) -they entered the Top 10 the same week (10/24/1987) -they were back-to-back in the year-end countdown (Mony Mony at #19 and I Think We're Alone Now at #18). Coincidence? Or another chart manipulation? I'm surprised Mobster Morris wouldn't have felt equally as robbed when "Crystal Blue Persuasion" came even closer to #1 than the two aforementioned songs. There had to have been millions of others perplexed at that song peaking at #2 for three weeks just so that Zager and Evans' heaping pile of excrement could stay at #1 for an even longer period of time.  |
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Post by mga707 on Jun 10, 2019 23:00:16 GMT -5
Funny how the remakes ended up hitting #1 (and back-to-back, no less). Also, not only were they #1 back-to-back: -they entered the Top 40 the same week (9/26/1987) -they entered the Top 10 the same week (10/24/1987) -they were back-to-back in the year-end countdown (Mony Mony at #19 and I Think We're Alone Now at #18). Coincidence? Or another chart manipulation? I'm surprised Mobster Morris wouldn't have felt equally as robbed when "Crystal Blue Persuasion" came even closer to #1 than the two aforementioned songs. There had to have been millions of others perplexed at that song peaking at #2 for three weeks just so that Zager and Evans' heaping pile of excrement could stay at #1 for an even longer period of time. True that, but for whatever reason Tommy James only mentioned the other two songs by name in his excellent book. I'm sure "Crystal Blue"s failure to hit the top only fueled Morris Levy's ire toward 'Billboard'. Knowing the people Levy associated with, I'd say the chart director at 'Billboard' in the late '60s is lucky to have not been the victim of an 'unfortunate accident'.  |
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Post by djjoe1960 on Jun 11, 2019 8:47:56 GMT -5
I am not sure if this chart oddity has been raised somewhere before but I was listening to an AT 40 show from October 1974 when Casey noted that Lynyrd Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama peaked at #9, the week the song dropped to #19. Following that drop the song climbed back into the Top 10 and held at #8 for two weeks and then fell completely out of the Top 40 to #44. I am wondering if there is any explanation for this odd chart movement? "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" by BTO had the same thing happen in the latter half of 1974 -- dropped from #12 to #34, then jumped back to #8, then had a normal descent out of the 40. I'm guessing there's no way the actual chart data dictated that sort of thing happening. Starting the week of 11/2/74, that song's run went like this: 2-1-12-34-8-8-12-23-41. The three weeks immediately following the song's week at #1 are baffling, while the rest of its chart run is a pretty typical rise and fall. My guess is that there were either chart manipulations, some significant errors in the compilation of the chart, or maybe a little of both. Just for comparison purposes, I looked at what BTO did on the Cash Box chart. After the song (You Ain't Sen Nothin' Yet) reached #1, it dropped to #8, then 14 then down to 34 and after that to #40, and finally out of the 40 to #75. I see nothing that indicates the single should have rebounded to the Top 10--although I know I have seen some people suggest that the song moved back up on the Billboard chart due to airplay that the B-side (Free Wheelin') received.
Of course, this is during the same time frame that there were UNUSUAL chart movements for Sweet Home Alabama by Lynyrd Skynyrd and Whatever Gets You Thru The Night by John Lennon.
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Post by woolebull on Jun 12, 2019 14:30:45 GMT -5
AT40's Top 50 of the 1970s was figured like so: "You Light Up My Life" was by far the #1 song of the decade based on its points, as well as weeks at #1, so it was placed there. Then, songs with multiple weeks at #1 were written on slips, placed in a hat, and 49 of them were drawn at random and placed on the chart in the order in which they were pulled out. This is a proven fact. SourceJust so you can have the pleasure...you Rick Rolled me eight years later  |
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Post by Michael1973 on Jun 13, 2019 10:18:55 GMT -5
I remember reading in Tommy James' book that Roulette Records head (and mobster) Morris Levy had a long-running vendetta against 'Billboard'. He was certain that the magazine had unfairly robbed TJ and the Shondells of two #1 chartings, "I Think We're Alone now" and "Mony, Mony". Funny how the remakes ended up hitting #1 (and back-to-back, no less). Also, not only were they #1 back-to-back: -they entered the Top 40 the same week (9/26/1987) -they entered the Top 10 the same week (10/24/1987) -they were back-to-back in the year-end countdown (Mony Mony at #19 and I Think We're Alone Now at #18). Coincidence? Or another chart manipulation? I have my own theory about this. I don't think it was chart manipulation on Billboard's part. Once I learned that radio playlists in the 1980's were basically random lists of songs that the station was playing, I considered the possibility that everyone was deliberately listing those two songs next to each other by association, so that they routinely ended up together on the national charts. Just a guess. |
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Post by djjoe1960 on Jun 13, 2019 15:56:02 GMT -5
Funny how the remakes ended up hitting #1 (and back-to-back, no less). Also, not only were they #1 back-to-back: -they entered the Top 40 the same week (9/26/1987) -they entered the Top 10 the same week (10/24/1987) -they were back-to-back in the year-end countdown (Mony Mony at #19 and I Think We're Alone Now at #18). Coincidence? Or another chart manipulation? I have my own theory about this. I don't think it was chart manipulation on Billboard's part. Once I learned that radio playlists in the 1980's were basically random lists of songs that the station was playing, I considered the possibility that everyone was deliberately listing those two songs next to each other by association, so that they routinely ended up together on the national charts. Just a guess. Both Tommy James re-makes made it to #1 on Cash Box and R & R (in addition to Billboard)--so apparently stations were playing the songs and , although singles sales were getting smaller, somebody must have been buying them, as well. |
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Post by lasvegaskid on Oct 21, 2019 11:33:46 GMT -5
On the 10/14/78 Hot 100 Substitute by Clout stood at #67. It then disappeared for a couple weeks before reappearing at #90 11/4, climbing back up to #80 the following week.
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Post by mga707 on Oct 25, 2019 20:56:24 GMT -5
I think 1982 is an interesting year. You had repeated patterns of gargantuan falls out of the top 40. This week Santana was Holding On at #15. But on the next 11/6 panel it was all the way down at #73, #95 the week after, it's final on the chart. The reason is simple. Bill Wardlaw. A chart like this week's in which every song but one (Cougar's #1 to #2 drop) either moved up or did not move is not a valid chart. Luckily 'Billboard' soon came to their senses. |
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Post by doofus67 on Oct 25, 2019 21:37:02 GMT -5
I think 1982 is an interesting year. You had repeated patterns of gargantuan falls out of the top 40. This week Santana was Holding On at #15. But on the next 11/6 panel it was all the way down at #73, #95 the week after, it's final on the chart. The reason is simple. Bill Wardlow. A chart like this week's in which every song but one (Cougar's #1 to #2 drop) either moved up or did not move is not a valid chart. Luckily 'Billboard' soon came to their senses. True. As far as I'm concerned, ol' B.S. Wardlow is the reason for this thread, all ten pages of it so far. |
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Post by doofus67 on Oct 26, 2019 21:38:46 GMT -5
And the saga of Bill Wardlow's plaything continues. Here are all of the songs that made the biggest drops out of the top 40 during 1982. This symbol ^ indicates the song was falling from its peak position.
-- 65 notches or more:
20 -92 THE BEATLES MOVIE MEDLEY 6/5
22^-90 STILL IN SAIGON 6/12
18^-85 NOBODY SAID IT WAS EASY 5/1
25^-91 MY GIRL [D. Iris] 6/12
16^-81 AMERICAN MUSIC 9/18
23 -88 OPEN ARMS 5/1
26 -91 THAT GIRL 5/1
27^-92 WAKE UP, LITTLE SUSIE 6/12
-- 60-64 notches:
19 -83 ONLY THE LONELY 9/11
22^-84 AND I AM TELLING YOU I'M NOT GOING 9/18
25 -87 THINK I'M IN LOVE 10/16
30^-92 MAMA USED TO SAY 5/1
31 -92 TONIGHT I'M YOURS 4/10
32 -93 BOBBIE SUE 4/17
25^-85 KIDS IN AMERICA 9/11
31^-91 I FOUND SOMEBODY 8/21
33 -93 MIRROR, MIRROR 4/10
34 -94 SPIRITS IN THE MATERIAL WORLD 4/10
34 -94 ONE HUNDRED WAYS 5/1
35 -95 TAKE IT EASY ON ME 4/10
-- 55-59 notches:
15 -74 HOOKED ON CLASSICS 2/20
17^-76 DON'T FIGHT IT 11/6
26 -85 KEEP THE FIRE BURNIN' 9/18
28^-87 IF THE LOVE FITS WEAR IT 8/28
32^-91 PAPERLATE 8/28
33^-92 YOUR IMAGINATION 8/28
38^-97 JUST CAN'T WIN 'EM ALL 4/10
15^-73 HOLD ON 11/6
29 -86 SWEET DREAMS 4/24
29 -86 ROSANNA 9/11
25^-83 BABY MAKES HER BLUE JEANS TALK 5/8
31 -89 CENTERFOLD 4/17
35 -93 PERSONALLY 8/28
37^-94 ROUTE 101 8/28
24 -80 MAKE A MOVE ON ME 5/8
36 -92 WHAT KIND OF FOOL AM I 8/21
37 -93 THROUGH THE YEARS 4/3
37 -93 I LOVE ROCK 'N ROLL 6/5
38 -94 TELL ME TOMORROW 4/3
38^-94 CIRCLES 6/5
11 -66 TAKE IT AWAY 10/2
31 -86 TAINTED LOVE 9/4
32 -87 DON'T YOU WANT ME 9/4
36 -91 GOIN' DOWN [it sure was!] 5/29
-- 50-54 notches:
13^-67 LOVE WILL TURN YOU AROUND 10/2
19 -73 WASTED ON THE WAY 9/25
31^-85 GENIUS OF LOVE 5/8
38^-91 LET ME GO 9/11
16 -68 LEATHER AND LACE 2/20
18 -70 '65 LOVE AFFAIR 6/19
35^-87 POP GOES THE MOVIES 4/24
37 -89 TAKE OFF 4/24
40 -92 I WOULDN'T HAVE MISSED IT FOR THE WORLD 2/13
17 -68 DON'T TALK TO STRANGERS 7/3
35 -86 PAC-MAN FEVER 5/8
36^-87 SOMEDAY, SOMEWAY 9/11
23 -73 RUN FOR THE ROSES 6/19
-- 45-49 notches:
10^-59 LOVE IS IN CONTROL 10/2
16 -65 I RAN (So Far Away) 11/13
22 -71 DID IT IN A MINUTE 6/19
27 -75 LET'S GROOVE 2/20
32^-80 LET'S HANG ON 5/15
34 -82 SOMEONE COULD LOSE A HEART TONIGHT 2/13
19^-66 WHAT'S FOREVER FOR 11/13
11 -57 VACATION 9/18
16^-62 FIND ANOTHER FOOL 5/1
23 -69 YOU SHOULD HEAR HOW SHE TALKS ABOUT YOU 10/23
24^-70 JUMP TO IT 10/23
30 -76 DO I DO 8/21
37 -83 YOUNG TURKS 2/13
38 -84 SHE'S GOT A WAY 2/13
38^-84 FRIENDS IN LOVE 6/19
39^-85 MURPHY'S LAW 6/19
23 -68 YOU DON'T WANT ME ANYMORE 12/4
30^-75 WHEN HE SHINES 6/19
31 -76 (Oh) PRETTY WOMAN 5/15
36^-81 IF I HAD MY WISH TONIGHT 5/15
-- 40-44 notches:
23 -67 KEY LARGO 5/15
29 -73 LOVE'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT HARD ON ME 8/21
32 -76 FANTASY 6/19
28^-71 ATHENA 11/20
29^-72 VOYEUR 10/23
31^-74 YOU DROPPED A BOMB ON ME 10/30
32^-75 VALLEY GIRL 9/25
38 -81 LOVE COME DOWN 11/27
21^-63 BIG FUN 10/30
23^-65 HOT IN THE CITY 10/9
26 -68 EDGE OF SEVENTEEN 5/15
26^-68 WHEN IT'S OVER 6/26
30^-72 MAKE BELIEVE 10/16 [just 5 wks after Rosanna]
38^-80 YOUNG LOVE 11/6
40^-82 LET IT BE ME 10/9
12 -53 CHARIOTS OF FIRE - TITLES 6/5
15^-56 NOBODY 12/11
22^-63 LOVE ME TOMORROW 12/18
25 -66 EMPTY GARDEN 6/26
26^-67 SWEET TIME 11/13
27 -68 LET IT WHIP 9/4
34 -75 YOU CAN DO MAGIC 12/4
17^-57 ONLY TIME WILL TELL 10/9
17 -57 HEARTLIGHT 12/18
32 -72 I'VE NEVER BEEN TO ME 7/3
-- 35-39 notches:
15 -54 IT'S GONNA TAKE A MIRACLE 7/3
22 -61 JACK & DIANE 12/4
26^-65 I.G.Y. 12/18
29 -68 SHAKE IT UP 4/10
32^-71 I GET EXCITED 11/13
37 -76 SEA OF LOVE 2/20
10 -48 ABRACADABRA 10/30
18^-56 COME GO WITH ME 2/13
24 -62 BREAK IT TO ME GENTLY 11/20
27 -65 GYPSY 11/20
28^-66 NEVER BEEN IN LOVE 10/9
31 -69 867-5309/JENNY 7/3
35 -73 WAITING ON A FRIEND 3/6
39 -77 HURTS SO GOOD 10/23
10^-47 GET DOWN ON IT 6/5
13^-50 MAKING LOVE 7/3
17 -54 FREEZE-FRAME 5/29
38^-75 YOU KEEP RUNNIN' AWAY 10/16
6 -42 EVEN THE NIGHTS ARE BETTER 9/25
13 -49 SOMEBODY'S BABY 11/13
18 -54 EYE OF THE TIGER 10/30
27 -63 SHOULD I DO IT 4/24
32 -68 HOLD ME 10/2
36- 72 LOVE IS ALRIGHT TONITE 3/6
37^-73 I NEED YOU 11/13
40^-76 LOVE OR LET ME BE LONELY 9/11
16 -51 HARD TO SAY I'M SORRY 10/30
24^-59 WITHOUT YOU 6/26
25^-60 THEME FROM MAGNUM, P.I. 5/22
34^-69 MORE THAN JUST THE TWO OF US 1/30
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Post by JMW on Oct 27, 2019 11:32:44 GMT -5
What I never understood is why 1982 was the year he decided to go hog-wild with the charts. Did he suspect he was going to be let go at some point and decided he was going to out in a blaze of glory?
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Post by doofus67 on Oct 27, 2019 12:20:22 GMT -5
What I never understood is why 1982 was the year he decided to go hog-wild with the charts. Did he suspect he was going to be let go at some point and decided he was going to out in a blaze of glory? We may never know. Only Bill could answer that question, and he's no longer with us. It's more fun to speculate anyway. |
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Post by djjoe1960 on Oct 27, 2019 14:11:07 GMT -5
Hey chart fans,
I just finished recording the Cash Box Countdown for the week that Baker Street reached the top of the Cash Box chart (July 15, 1978)--
I will let you know when I post it on line so you can give it a listen. Too bad that (Uncle) Bill never let the song go to #1 on the Billboard
chart, so we could've heard Casey talk about Gerry (Rafferty) knocking off Andy (Gibb).
Joe
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Post by djjoe1960 on Oct 29, 2019 12:47:55 GMT -5
A few months later, in February/March 1975, the Ohio Players' "Fire" took another fast drop and then paused, going 1-6-12-28-39-39. So maybe the Lennon plunge and pause wasn't entirely artificial, though its drop was steeper and the history-making nature of the extra week at #40 is decent reason for suspicion. I think the chart was more systematically warped in the early 1980s, when the system of not allowing songs to fall until they had lost their "stars" and "bullets" resulted in many songs moving up slowly, holding in high chart positions for weeks (and blocking several potential hits from the top 10, including some top 10s on other charts), and then suddenly falling off the proverbial cliff when allowed to drop. Casey just answered a question on the 12/15/79 show about whether the 4 solo Beatles ever were in the top 40 together. First of all, he said, "The first thing the AT40 staff thought was why would someone send in a question that was sure to get no for an answer." Seems strange that they would think that when something like this should be well known. Anyway, Casey then answered it by saying yes it happened for 2 weeks in January 1975. Did not mention that it also happened for that one week in Dec. 1974 because of the chart movement highlighted above. Could it be that AT40 in association with Billboard had acknowledged that it was indeed chart chicanery back then? BTW, this question being answered on the 12/15/79 show is exactly 5 years after the week in question but no mention was made of it. I just finished a little research on the this little chart phenomenon (the infamous Fab 4 solo hits) and found that Cash Box had the 4 Beatles in the Top 40 for the week ending December 7, 1974 and I wonder if that lead to Billboard making sure it happened on their chart the following week (December 14, 1974). Although, after a little detective work, Billboard may have been correct as those 4 songs were in the Top 40 on the Record World chart that week and were in the Top 40 on the Radio & Records chart, as well.
Here are the chart positions for the week ending December 7, 1974: Whatever Gets You Through the Night-John Lennon (#40-BB/#22-RW/#18-R&R/#38-CB) Dark Horse-George Harrison (#43-BB/#37-RW/NOC-R&R/#33-CB) Only You-Ringo Starr (#25-BB/#33-RW/#24-R&R/#15-CB) Junior's Farm-Paul McCartney & Wings (#12-BB/#9-RW/#10-R&R/#11-CB)
Here are the chart positions for December 14, 1974: Whatever Gets You Through the Night-John Lennon (#40-BB/#37-RW/#22-R&R/#45-CB) Dark Horse-George Harrison (#32-BB/#31-RW/#40-R&R/#29-CB) Only You-Ringo Starr (#18-BB/#25-RW/#13-R&R/#12-CB) Junior's Farm-Paul McCartney & Wings (#10-BB/#6-RW/#6-R&R/#8-CB)
So , while all along many of us suspected that Billboard did this to give Casey something interesting to talk about on AT40--perhaps, the Billboard chart (for that week) accurately showed the popularity of those 4 ex-Beatles tunes.  |
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Post by mkarns on Oct 29, 2019 17:39:22 GMT -5
I think 1982 is an interesting year. You had repeated patterns of gargantuan falls out of the top 40. This week Santana was Holding On at #15. But on the next 11/6 panel it was all the way down at #73, #95 the week after, it's final on the chart. The reason is simple. Bill Wardlaw. A chart like this week's in which every song but one (Cougar's #1 to #2 drop) either moved up or did not move is not a valid chart. Luckily 'Billboard' soon came to their senses. I suspect Casey often had to do some extra rehearsal or retakes when recording shows in this period, lest his eye-rolling at some of the chart movements he had to announce come through in his delivery as seeming critical of the songs. |
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