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Post by mrjukebox on Sept 28, 2011 21:02:39 GMT -5
The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame has just announced the nominees for the class of 2012-Joan Jett,Heart,& The Cure are among the first timers-Some other artists that have been considered for induction appear on the voting ballot such as Donna Summer,Donovan,War,& Sting-The five inductees will be announced before Christmas & the annual induction ceremony will take place in April 2012.
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Post by Ponderous Man on Oct 4, 2011 4:31:17 GMT -5
Here are the actual nominees:
Beastie Boys, The Cure, Donovan, Eric B. & Rakim, Guns N' Roses, Heart, Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, Freddie King, Laura Nyro, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rufus & Chaka Khan, The Small Faces & The Faces (yes, they're lumped together), The Spinners, Donovan, & War
Eric B. & Rakim & Guns N' Roses were nominated in their first year. The Cure, Heart, Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, Freddie King, Rufus & Chaka Khan, The Small Faces & The Faces, & The Spinners are all nominated for the first time. The other acts have been nominated before.
Among the notable snubs:
Chic (who've been nominated 6 times)
Rush
Deep Purple
Yes
Moody Blues
King Crimson
KISS
MC5
T. Rex
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Peter Gabriel
Bon Jovi
But the biggest snub of them all:
Chicago!
They're just like the Cubs: Wait 'til next year! ;D
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Post by jaxxalude on Oct 4, 2011 9:31:43 GMT -5
Journey are also another big snub. I don't think they've ever even been nominated at all.
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Oct 4, 2011 16:39:15 GMT -5
Cheap Trick, Foreigner, BTO, Guess Who, Iron Butterfly...
Because of course, RAP comes in before rock groups. After all it is the ROCK N ROLL hall of fame. I wouldn't complain if it was the MUSIC hall of fame. But overlooking actual amazing Rock music acts is criminal at the very least!
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Post by jaxxalude on Oct 4, 2011 18:17:04 GMT -5
You already had soul, R&B and funk acts before at least. Look, people get too hung up on the word "rock". What they have to realize is that, in this context, "rock & roll" serves as an umbrella term. It spans the evolution of music roughly since the mid-50's. And so it is that soul/R&B, disco, funk AND hip-hop have all the right to be there. Madonna has been inducted too.
Out of those you mentioned, I think Cheap Trick and Iron Butterfly are probably the only ones with a credible chance of ever being inducted. The first because even if they didn't invent power pop, they pretty much became one of the templates for the genre. Besides, Cheap Trick's influence spans not only the big 80's radio rock, but also the Alternative Generation - people like the Smashing Pumpkins, Courtney Love or Jane's Addiction freely admitted the Trick's influence.
Iron Butterfly, on the other hand, are seen as pretty much the precursors of hard rock & heavy metal, along with Blue Cheer, Cream and Jimi Hendrix; so you cannot deny their importance.
The others, while successful (or in Foreigner's case, very successful) aren't really thought of as important and/or influential. Come to think about it, neither is Journey. But if one true-blue arena rock act has to enter, then Journey will have to be the one, as they pretty much set out the blueprint for all your Foreigners, REO's and Styx's.
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Oct 5, 2011 9:19:14 GMT -5
The Guess Who then belongs according to your logic because they were the first big Canadian Rock act to get widespread and much success in the USA.
Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly & Blue Cheer deserve entry together because they were THE first 3 successful heavy metal acts. Maybe IB and BC as Early Influences for Heavy Metal and Steppenfwolf as a group itself since they actually had more than one hit. They had several actually.
Even Madonna, Michael Jackson & Abba are different. I just say, if you want to include hip hop, then change the name to the BS Music hall of fame (BS goes away when they stop turning their nose up to Rush and many of the others listed)
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Post by jaxxalude on Oct 5, 2011 10:41:35 GMT -5
Not really. It's true that they were probably the first big Canadian act to get exported. Thing is, who talks about The Guess Who as some sort of pivotal/important/influential band? Exactly. Yes, "American Woman" is still played a lot on Classic Rock and other nostalgia-based formats. But so is "Yummy Yummy Yummy" and no one looks to the Ohio Êxpress as anything other than a novelty. I mean, did you watch Almost Famous? Do you remember the part when Lester Bangs dismisses The Doors as mere hacks and says "Give me The Guess Who! At least they admit they're just drunkards out for a good time!"? I mean, the essence of that band is distilled right there, on the spot. They were just a glorified bar band, really; and that's how History regards them. But hey, feel free to disagree and present a valid point against this view. As for Rush... nothing against Canadians here!  But are they THAT important? Look, I actually like Rush as much as the next man. And come to think about it, an act like the Pumpkins does sport a certain Rush-vibe in their music - namely the big-duration songs, full of twists and turns and all that. But if one thinks about it, Pink Floyd, Yes and ELP were already doing a lot of it beforehand. Rush, while a good act overall, ended up being just Johnny-come-latelys to that game. So their snub doesn't really feel that shocking, at least to me. You hadn't mentioned Steppenwolf, but hey, there's a good one! They have their share of importance, that's true. They should be inducted at some point. I won't even go into your endemic hatred of hip-hop!  |
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Oct 5, 2011 16:12:04 GMT -5
The Guess Who were the first Canadian Rock Act to get airplay outside of Canada, they had several top 40 classic rock hits. Many of the other inductees were along the same lines as what Lester Bangs allegedly said about them. (Seeing as its Hollywood, that could be incorrect)
And not just American Woman is still played. On my station for example we have American Woman, No Sugar Tonight/New Mother Nature, No TIme, Hand Me Down World, Share The Land, Hang On To Your Life & Clap For The Wolfman. I think Star Baby as well.
I'd even go as far to say (Even though I like both bands about equally) That they should go in before BTO.
As for my hatred of Hip Hop, thats not the point, Hip Hop has nothing to do with Rock N Roll (Except the blatant usage of samples of the songs) Seeing as its the Rock N Roll hall of fame, thats why I say they sdon't belong... And especially not before many rockers. Now The Beastie Boys are up for induction this year and that would be fine since they generally play their own instruments and are closer to "Alternative" than hip hop or rap!
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Post by jaxxalude on Oct 5, 2011 17:01:39 GMT -5
They were? Care to give some examples?
Well, the world doesn't revolve around your local Oldies station, I'm afraid. The Average Joe/Jane only knows "American Woman" and that's pretty much an irrefutable fact.
Look, there's opinion and then there's pure fallacy. I'm not even going to dispute the one about sampling not being an instrument again, other than to say that that is a bit like climate change-deniers trying to dispute plain scientific facts about Humankind's influence on it.
The fallacy I will dispute though is the one about hip-hop not having anything to do with rock & roll. Here's a lineage for you:
Original R&B influences rock & roll. Then rock & roll itself influences R&B, giving origin to soul music. Soul in itself would go into myriad directions, from Memphis to New Orleans to Philly and ultimately funk. It would be the latter two that would have the most influence on what would become disco. It was predominantly out of funk and disco that came the first records which DJ's would play not only to rock the crowd, but also to serve as sound tapestries for what at the time were known as MC's for them to improvise festive rhymes, in order for them to entertain the crowd some more at block parties.
Care to dispute me on this?
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Post by Ponderous Man on Oct 5, 2011 17:25:27 GMT -5
Okay, let's try & change the subject here & not start a flame war (Hint hint, Jaxxalude).
I think that the 5 artists that will eventually be inducted are Guns N' Roses, Beastie Boys, Heart, Freddie King, & The Spinners. What do you guys think?
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Post by dukelightning on Oct 5, 2011 17:59:54 GMT -5
Interesting timeline for R&B which BTW I listen to all the time...www.jammin993.com FYI. But if you look at the breakdown of top 40 radio, it wasn't the Memphis, Philly, Motown, funk, disco ar any other form of R&B that broke it up. It was hip-hop and rap. Many of us that listened or still listen to the likes of James Brown, Stylistics, Al Green, Commodores, EWF, Donna Summer, Prince and dozens of other artists do not listen to Lil Wayne, Puff Daddy and the rest. If you want to stand behind artists that contributed to the breakdown of top 40 radio, be my guest but they obviously are not accepted like the R&B artists of the 80s and before.
And if I had a nickel for every comment on youtube ridiculing hip-hop and rap, I could retire. Comment under Stephanie Mills & Teddy Pendergrass' "Two Hearts" comes to mind. Enough said.
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Oct 5, 2011 18:09:16 GMT -5
They were? Care to give some examples?
Not real sure what you're asking for, its a pretty vague statement.
Well, the world doesn't revolve around your local Oldies station, I'm afraid. The Average Joe/Jane only knows "American Woman" and that's pretty much an irrefutable fact.
Actually no, One, its a classic rock station. Two, Many people will name These Eyes long before any other song, but most people I have DJ'ed for (Party wise) have also asked for Laughing, No Sugar Tonight & Share The Land. The rest I'll give you are not as well known.
I'm not getting into an argument with someone who isn't as knowledgable, I am better than that.
I know what the intellegent music listener knows and that satisfies me.
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Post by jaxxalude on Oct 5, 2011 18:12:42 GMT -5
I don't start anything, but whatever, f**k it! (now this is starting something! ) Well, dukedeb, that's fine for me. But what you and your generation listen to doesn't have anything to do with the point I was trying to make. Like it or not, hip-hop comes from the lineage I broke down. Each person's taste is another thing altogether and I won't discuss it. |
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Oct 5, 2011 18:18:05 GMT -5
His generation is 99% of the members of this board. Only you and Blackbowl seem to like it. Why not sign into that account and have him tell us what "he" thinks.
And yeah, you started it. I made a simple, easy to understand point that the "ROCK N ROLL" Hall of Fame has nothing to do with HIP HOP or RAP. You got all bent out of shape because you think anyone else here gives a flying leap about it. Its nice that you do. But we don't and anyone who knows ANYTHING about music would have to admit that ROCK N ROLL acts should be inducted there before anything else. Older music and R&B is fine, they share a lineage. Disco is pushing it but there is rock elements in there. Same with New Wave and (Yeah, even Grunge, though I'll be just as mad if Pearl Jam and Nirvana make it in before the ones listed earlier in the thread)
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Post by jaxxalude on Oct 5, 2011 18:19:41 GMT -5
They were? Care to give some examples?Not real sure what you're asking for, its a pretty vague statement. Well, the world doesn't revolve around your local Oldies station, I'm afraid. The Average Joe/Jane only knows "American Woman" and that's pretty much an irrefutable fact.Actually no, One, its a classic rock station. Two, Many people will name These Eyes long before any other song, but most people I have DJ'ed for (Party wise) have also asked for Laughing, No Sugar Tonight & Share The Land. The rest I'll give you are not as well known. I'm not getting into an argument with someone who isn't as knowledgable, I am better than that. I know what the intellegent music listener knows and that satisfies me. In true Internet speak: WTFF? No really, WTFF was this? "Intelligent music listener"? "Someone who isn't as knowledgeable"? "I'm better than that"? Dude, that's seriously unhinged! No, it is! How old are you? 5? |
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But are they THAT important? Look, I actually like Rush as much as the next man. And come to think about it, an act like the Pumpkins does sport a certain Rush-vibe in their music - namely the big-duration songs, full of twists and turns and all that. But if one thinks about it, Pink Floyd, Yes and ELP were already doing a lot of it beforehand. Rush, while a good act overall, ended up being just Johnny-come-latelys to that game. So their snub doesn't really feel that shocking, at least to me.