Billboard Hot 100 & Top 40

[papathree]

The earlier thread asking about the impact of fewer and fewer stations and record stores available to survey prompted me to ask this question:

Did Billboard "really" conduct those surveys as Casey suggested? Or did some guy/gal sit in a room and scribble out a new listing each week, based on his/her "best guess?"

I've even wondered if something like "payola" was going on . . . whereby record companies paid "donations" to "help" their records climb the charts. If "donations" were late or not paid at all, the record might magically start to descend (or drop off) the chart.

Part of my speculation (and that is ALL it is, as far as I know) is due to the fact that there are just too many odd facts about the tabulation of the Hot 100 and the way AT40 got the info so they could publish their own countdown.

1. Billboard was somehow able to determine chart positions in the future, well before publishing their magazine each week, thereby predicting each record's position at some future date. How did they know that? How were they able to predict which records would debut? How were they able to predict how many records would sell the following week?
2. Billboard was able to provide AT40 with the list at least a week before the air date.
3. There were too many AT40 shows where the count got screwed up. How?
4. There are many shows where all of the previous week's debuts climbed exactly the same number of notches, and many shows where almost every "climber" moved up the same number of notches. That's just hard to believe such occurrences were based on reality.
5. And finally, if "Top 40" stations were the popular format in the '70's and early '80's, doesn't that mean they programmed records only if they were in Billboard's Top 40? If so, how did a record debuting at #85 on the Hot 100 (for example) ever get played enough on the radio to make it all the way to #40 or higher? And how did record buyers become aware of that #85 record to make them decide they "had to buy it" in numbers to influence its sales sufficiently to bring it into the Top 40?

Anyway, does anyone out there have any info that could ease my tendency to suspect crazy conspiracy theories?

Cheers, Mitch

[jdelachjr2002]

I thought Billboard released their Hot 100 at least 10 days before the published issue date. For example, the chart dated August 28, 2010 would come out as early as August 18th.

[donwa001]

In 1973, my mother worked at a Top 40 station that every week got a call from Billboard. If she happened to answer the phone when Billboard called, she would take the new Top 40 list and read off the rank and title of every song on the list along with the debut songs. Once Billboard started printing their "Singles Radio Action" section each week, they would list the 2 big movers at the station along with the debut titles.

I'm guessing the Billboard staffer would have the station's prior Top 40 listing in front of them before they called. That way they could quickly note the position of each song and write in the debuts. Then that information would be entered into their computer system.

[bandit73]

Aug 16, 2010 20:33:29 GMT -5 papathree said:

5. And finally, if "Top 40" stations were the popular format in the '70's and early '80's, doesn't that mean they programmed records only if they were in Billboard's Top 40? If so, how did a record debuting at #85 on the Hot 100 (for example) ever get played enough on the radio to make it all the way to #40 or higher? And how did record buyers become aware of that #85 record to make them decide they "had to buy it" in numbers to influence its sales sufficiently to bring it into the Top 40?

Some stations added records early - especially in smaller cities.

While a big station in Cincinnati or Chicago took forever to add a record, the Singles Action section of Billboard showed stations in smaller cities adding records much earlier - and adding more records.

[Shadoe Fan]

As noted above, the Billboard chart date is over a week ahead of time. The latest Hot 100 was updated on the Billboard site on the 12th, and the chart date is "August 21".

Back when Casey used the R&R charts for AT40, the chart was finalized on Sunday night, then the show based on that chart aired 2 weeks later. For example, the chart finalized August 15 would be the R&R magazine date of August 20, and AT40 would air that chart August 27.

[mstgator]

Aug 17, 2010 0:44:28 GMT -5 bandit73 said:

Aug 16, 2010 20:33:29 GMT -5 papathree said:

5. And finally, if "Top 40" stations were the popular format in the '70's and early '80's, doesn't that mean they programmed records only if they were in Billboard's Top 40? If so, how did a record debuting at #85 on the Hot 100 (for example) ever get played enough on the radio to make it all the way to #40 or higher? And how did record buyers become aware of that #85 record to make them decide they "had to buy it" in numbers to influence its sales sufficiently to bring it into the Top 40?

Some stations added records early - especially in smaller cities.

While a big station in Cincinnati or Chicago took forever to add a record, the Singles Action section of Billboard showed stations in smaller cities adding records much earlier - and adding more records.

Yep... back then you had a LOT more regional hits that broke before hitting the national Top 40 (even different Top 40 stations in the same city playing different songs) than you see today with corporate homogenized playlists.

[mstgator]

Aug 16, 2010 20:33:29 GMT -5 papathree said:

3. There were too many AT40 shows where the count got screwed up. How?

During the show's original 1970-1995 run, I believe there were only three weeks where AT40 aired an entire show's worth of bad data. One of these (in 1974) was intentional on AT40's part (Casey was going to be away for three weeks, so the staff estimated chart positions one week in order to record that show earlier). The other two times (in 1973 and 1991) were Billboard's fault; they gave AT40 incorrect data which wasn't recalculated until after the shows were recorded. There were a handful of other occasions where one to three songs were listed in incorrect positions, but over a 25 year span, a few mistakes are to be expected.

[papathree]

Aug 17, 2010 16:48:21 GMT -5 Shadoe Fan said:

As noted above, the Billboard chart date is over a week ahead of time. The latest Hot 100 was updated on the Billboard site on the 12th, and the chart date is "August 21".

Back when Casey used the R&R charts for AT40, the chart was finalized on Sunday night, then the show based on that chart aired 2 weeks later. For example, the chart finalized August 15 would be the R&R magazine date of August 20, and AT40 would air that chart August 27.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an "R&R Chart?" I thought he used the Billboard Hot 100 (from the 1st AT40 show).

[mkarns]

Aug 17, 2010 18:01:15 GMT -5 papathree said:

Aug 17, 2010 16:48:21 GMT -5 Shadoe Fan said:

As noted above, the Billboard chart date is over a week ahead of time. The latest Hot 100 was updated on the Billboard site on the 12th, and the chart date is "August 21".

Back when Casey used the R&R charts for AT40, the chart was finalized on Sunday night, then the show based on that chart aired 2 weeks later. For example, the chart finalized August 15 would be the R&R magazine date of August 20, and AT40 would air that chart August 27.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an "R&R Chart?" I thought he used the Billboard Hot 100 (from the 1st AT40 show).

Radio and Records magazine, which was used for AT40's 1998-2003 run, as well as for Casey's Top 40.

The Hot 100 was used from 1970-91; when the computerized Sound Scan system was adopted for the Hot 100 in November 1991 AT40, then hosted by Shadoe Stevens, switched to the Top 40 Radio Monitor airplay chart then published by Billboard.

[tarobe]

Top 40 stations did not necessarily base their playlists on the Billboard Hot 100 or any other magazine. Most of them had their own charts which they tabulated using their own criteria. It all depended on the station and the market. A record that was listed at #85 on the Hot 100 might be #3 in Memphis or Houston or wherever. It really wasn't until the 70's and American Top 40 that the top 40 of Hot 100 chart began to thought of as a standard.