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Post by Glass Joe on Aug 4, 2021 15:40:16 GMT -5
Starting with this question because it would lead me to the next one. Would anyone happen to know, based on whatever chart AT40 was using in December 1994, what would have been the full Top 100 of 1994 if they did one? There should be a published chart somewhere that would show numbers 100 to 51. I’m very curious to what would be there. Wondering if either “Daughter” by Pearl Jam (peak # 28, but spent 16 weeks on) or “Basket Case” by Green Day would have made the Top 100.
Also, if AT40 with Shadoe continued on through all of 1995, what would the Top 100 of 1995 have been based on the chart AT40 was using then? It’s unfortunate that Shadoe’s AT40 was only around for January of that year. His show and presentation were awesome!
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Post by dth1971 on Aug 4, 2021 20:47:19 GMT -5
Well, Billboard did away with the Top 40 Mainstream chart in May 1995.
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Post by Mike on Aug 4, 2021 21:09:49 GMT -5
Well, Billboard did away with the Top 40 Mainstream chart in May 1995. No they didn't. They just stopped publishing it in the main magazine - it continued to be published in Billboard's Airplay Monitor magazine. There was a main Airplay Monitor, and a few specific formats such as Country and Top 40/CHR each had their own as well. Mainstream returned to the main magazine in the August 2, 2003 issue, where it remains to this day.
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Post by Mike on Aug 4, 2021 21:23:01 GMT -5
I will say this:
Billboard's Mainstream chart has been more consistently stable over the years than the various R&R/Mediabase charts that have been used by CT40 and later AT40. I'll discount the 1994 R&R chart change to airplay monitoring, since that happened while Billboard AT40 still existed and AT40 had changed Billboard charts twice already. But since then...
R&R introduced the #25/26 weeks recurrent rule in June 1996 (effective with the 6/29/96 CT40). Then revised that to #20/20 weeks in June 1999 (effective with the 7/3/99 AT40). Then AT40 changed to the unpublished Mediabase chart for 10/21/00-8/11/01. Then changed back to the published R&R on 8/18/01. R&R had changed recurrent rules to #25/3 spin loss weeks for the chart AT40 returned to. Then, in November (effective with the 11/10/01 AT40), they changed back to #20/20 weeks. Then, AT40 changed to the unpublished "recurrentless" chart beginning with Seacrest signing on as host in 2004.
That last one, AT40 has stuck to ever since - but that's still a turbulent history over an 8 year stretch.
In contrast: The Billboard Mainstream recurrent rule was #20/26 weeks from when it began being effective around May 1993. It remained that through the 2005 chart year - then beginning 12/3/05, they changed to #20/20 weeks. It remained that through the 2010 chart year - then beginning 12/4/10, they changed to #15/20 weeks, which it has remained ever since.
Much more stable over a longer period, if you ask me. Had the original AT40 been able to stick around, they might have had something with that chart. But, of course, that would have required quite a number of years to really bear that out.
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Post by Mike on Aug 4, 2021 21:34:03 GMT -5
As to these: Starting with this question because it would lead me to the next one. Would anyone happen to know, based on whatever chart AT40 was using in December 1994, what would have been the full Top 100 of 1994 if they did one? There should be a published chart somewhere that would show numbers 100 to 51. I’m very curious to what would be there. Wondering if either “Daughter” by Pearl Jam (peak # 28, but spent 16 weeks on) or “Basket Case” by Green Day would have made the Top 100. Also, if AT40 with Shadoe continued on through all of 1995, what would the Top 100 of 1995 have been based on the chart AT40 was using then? It’s unfortunate that Shadoe’s AT40 was only around for January of that year. His show and presentation were awesome! For full Top 100 charts, the closest would have to be Billboard's official Mainstream charts for 1996 up to into the 2000s, viewable through the Airplay Monitor year-end issues available here: worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard_Airplay_Monitor.htmUnfortunately, 1993, 1994, and 1995 remain mysteries. As to 1994 - I had been attempting to compute an estimated year-end chart, up until the laptop I'd been working on conked out on me in 2017. I've since been able to retrieve the spreadsheet, but it'll take some time to finish. I was up through September, and based on what I have... Regarding "Daughter", I sincerely doubt it. Just for the heck of it, I used three different computation methods - through September, "Daughter" ranks at #88 on two of the three and #96 on the third. I'd say it's likely that one doesn't make it. Regarding "Basket Case"...it probably makes it into a Top 100 since it debuted in September and lasted through the end of Shadoe, but no way do I have any idea as to where it ranks, not that early in the song's chart life. Having said these, don't expect results anytime soon.
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Post by dth1971 on Aug 5, 2021 5:46:56 GMT -5
As to these: Starting with this question because it would lead me to the next one. Would anyone happen to know, based on whatever chart AT40 was using in December 1994, what would have been the full Top 100 of 1994 if they did one? There should be a published chart somewhere that would show numbers 100 to 51. I’m very curious to what would be there. Wondering if either “Daughter” by Pearl Jam (peak # 28, but spent 16 weeks on) or “Basket Case” by Green Day would have made the Top 100. Also, if AT40 with Shadoe continued on through all of 1995, what would the Top 100 of 1995 have been based on the chart AT40 was using then? It’s unfortunate that Shadoe’s AT40 was only around for January of that year. His show and presentation were awesome! For full Top 100 charts, the closest would have to be Billboard's official Mainstream charts for 1996 up to into the 2000s, viewable through the Airplay Monitor year-end issues available here: worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard_Airplay_Monitor.htmUnfortunately, 1993, 1994, and 1995 remain mysteries. As to 1994 - I had been attempting to compute an estimated year-end chart, up until the laptop I'd been working on conked out on me in 2017. I've since been able to retrieve the spreadsheet, but it'll take some time to finish. I was up through September, and based on what I have... Regarding "Daughter", I sincerely doubt it. Just for the heck of it, I used three different computation methods - through September, "Daughter" ranks at #88 on two of the three and #96 on the third. I'd say it's likely that one doesn't make it. Regarding "Basket Case"...it probably makes it into a Top 100 since it debuted in September and lasted through the end of Shadoe, but no way do I have any idea as to where it ranks, not that early in the song's chart life. Having said these, don't expect results anytime soon. "Fantastic Voyage" by Coolio did make the Top 40 Mainstream chart for AT40 territory even when Shadoe AT40 was withdrawn from the USA after July 1994, would that Coolio "Fantastic Voyage" been part of the AT40 year end 1994 top 100 or not?
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Post by Glass Joe on Aug 5, 2021 10:53:48 GMT -5
As to these: Starting with this question because it would lead me to the next one. Would anyone happen to know, based on whatever chart AT40 was using in December 1994, what would have been the full Top 100 of 1994 if they did one? There should be a published chart somewhere that would show numbers 100 to 51. I’m very curious to what would be there. Wondering if either “Daughter” by Pearl Jam (peak # 28, but spent 16 weeks on) or “Basket Case” by Green Day would have made the Top 100. Also, if AT40 with Shadoe continued on through all of 1995, what would the Top 100 of 1995 have been based on the chart AT40 was using then? It’s unfortunate that Shadoe’s AT40 was only around for January of that year. His show and presentation were awesome! For full Top 100 charts, the closest would have to be Billboard's official Mainstream charts for 1996 up to into the 2000s, viewable through the Airplay Monitor year-end issues available here: worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard_Airplay_Monitor.htmUnfortunately, 1993, 1994, and 1995 remain mysteries. As to 1994 - I had been attempting to compute an estimated year-end chart, up until the laptop I'd been working on conked out on me in 2017. I've since been able to retrieve the spreadsheet, but it'll take some time to finish. I was up through September, and based on what I have... Regarding "Daughter", I sincerely doubt it. Just for the heck of it, I used three different computation methods - through September, "Daughter" ranks at #88 on two of the three and #96 on the third. I'd say it's likely that one doesn't make it. Regarding "Basket Case"...it probably makes it into a Top 100 since it debuted in September and lasted through the end of Shadoe, but no way do I have any idea as to where it ranks, not that early in the song's chart life. Having said these, don't expect results anytime soon. I would have figured that “Daughter” would probably rank around # 90 on the Top 100 of that year if AT40 did a full one. After all, “Drive” by REM made it to # 95 in 1993 and that song peaked at # 30 and had less time on the chart, so around # 90 seems likely for “Daughter.” I would guess “Basket Case” would rank at # 80 or # 79 because “Hey Jealousy” by the Gin Blossoms had a very similar chart run the year before and placed around # 80 on the 1993 chart. It’s too bad you didn’t get to finish that Top 100. Would have been neat to see it. Also, do you think “Something’s Always Wrong” or “Fall Down” by Toad the Wet Sprocket would have made it?
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Post by Mike on Aug 5, 2021 11:37:35 GMT -5
I would have figured that “Daughter” would probably rank around # 90 on the Top 100 of that year if AT40 did a full one. After all, “Drive” by REM made it to # 95 in 1993 and that song peaked at # 30 and had less time on the chart, so around # 90 seems likely for “Daughter.” The only way that makes sense is if you change the computation and use Billboard's Mainstream chart in place of what AT40 actually counted down for the last 3 months of 1992. "Drive" peaked at #23 on Mainstream and spent 12 weeks on the chart - placing it much more in line with the likes of "Fields of Gold" (#24, 12 weeks on) and "Reason to Believe" (#24, 13 weeks on), which also made it in. ("Hey Jealousy", by comparison, reached a little higher - #20 - and spent more weeks on the chart - 12/4 was its 14th week - placing it at least a step above those three.) Staying strict to what AT40 actually counted down does not allow "Drive" to make it in, no matter how you compute it, not unless you forcibly place it in the year-end countdown and disregard the calculated results. The real head-scratcher to me, though, is Tony! Toni! Tone!'s "Anniversary". That reached #20 but spent just 8 weeks on the chart. And before anybody brings up "The Morning Papers", "Get Away", or "Somebody to Love" (all of which also spent less than 10 weeks on the chart) - those all ranked in the bottom five for the year. So how the heck does "Anniversary" out-rank them? The only other answer to this would be if they DID, in fact, have Billboard's own year-end Mainstream rankings and used those for the countdown rather than computing their own - it would explain both "Drive" and "Anniversary", since their rankings would be based on total spin counts rather than any kind of formula (inverse-ranking or otherwise) that was based off the chart rankings. It’s too bad you didn’t get to finish that Top 100. Would have been neat to see it. Also, do you think “Something’s Always Wrong” or “Fall Down” by Toad the Wet Sprocket would have made it? "Fall Down"? Hard maybe. It's at #76 in two out of the three rankings and #77 in the third where I left off. That will at least be a close finish either way. "Something's Always Wrong"? Not on my rankings as yet since it doesn't hit the chart until mid-October - but it's for that reason that it might fall JUST too late to make it, despite reaching #14.
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Post by Glass Joe on Aug 6, 2021 15:29:04 GMT -5
I would have figured that “Daughter” would probably rank around # 90 on the Top 100 of that year if AT40 did a full one. After all, “Drive” by REM made it to # 95 in 1993 and that song peaked at # 30 and had less time on the chart, so around # 90 seems likely for “Daughter.” The only way that makes sense is if you change the computation and use Billboard's Mainstream chart in place of what AT40 actually counted down for the last 3 months of 1992. "Drive" peaked at #23 on Mainstream and spent 12 weeks on the chart - placing it much more in line with the likes of "Fields of Gold" (#24, 12 weeks on) and "Reason to Believe" (#24, 13 weeks on), which also made it in. ("Hey Jealousy", by comparison, reached a little higher - #20 - and spent more weeks on the chart - 12/4 was its 14th week - placing it at least a step above those three.) Staying strict to what AT40 actually counted down does not allow "Drive" to make it in, no matter how you compute it, not unless you forcibly place it in the year-end countdown and disregard the calculated results. The real head-scratcher to me, though, is Tony! Toni! Tone!'s "Anniversary". That reached #20 but spent just 8 weeks on the chart. And before anybody brings up "The Morning Papers", "Get Away", or "Somebody to Love" (all of which also spent less than 10 weeks on the chart) - those all ranked in the bottom five for the year. So how the heck does "Anniversary" out-rank them? The only other answer to this would be if they DID, in fact, have Billboard's own year-end Mainstream rankings and used those for the countdown rather than computing their own - it would explain both "Drive" and "Anniversary", since their rankings would be based on total spin counts rather than any kind of formula (inverse-ranking or otherwise) that was based off the chart rankings. It’s too bad you didn’t get to finish that Top 100. Would have been neat to see it. Also, do you think “Something’s Always Wrong” or “Fall Down” by Toad the Wet Sprocket would have made it? "Fall Down"? Hard maybe. It's at #76 in two out of the three rankings and #77 in the third where I left off. That will at least be a close finish either way. "Something's Always Wrong"? Not on my rankings as yet since it doesn't hit the chart until mid-October - but it's for that reason that it might fall JUST too late to make it, despite reaching #14. That sounds about right. I couldn't figure out previously how "Drive" made it, but it makes sense that on the other chart computation, it was about even with "Fields of Gold," so I think they for some reason switched to that chart variation for the year end show.
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