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Post by trekkielo on Sept 18, 2015 12:42:55 GMT -5
I read that talk page. No offense, trekkielo, but it looks like your motive to include R&R chart data is to give the impression to Wikipedia readers that the Electric Light Orchestra had a #1 song in the USA. I still feel this info should not be included because its source does not use sales data. So what, radio airplay was big for album oriented rock (AOR) bands like Electric Light Orchestra who sold more albums than singles, there's no impression about it, just the facts, ELO did have a US #1 hit on that Radio & Records pop chart back in 1979 and I want all 17 songs from this particular one to be inclusive with Wikipedia!
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Post by johnnywest on Sept 18, 2015 12:44:55 GMT -5
Back to trekkielo's original question... if Radio & Records' charts were featured on the shows listed below, it had to be considered at least a noteworthy chart during the 80s, 90s and early 00s. This information is listed on Wikipedia's page for Radio & Records: Use in countdown shows: Countdown America used the CHR/Pop chart in the mid-1980s for this four-hour countdown show hosted by John Leader and Radio & Records writer Dave Sholin. Casey Kasem used the Radio & Records Charts for his countdown shows in the latter part of his career: - The CHR/Pop chart was used for "Casey's Top 40" (January 1989 – March 1998) and "American Top 40" (March 1998 – October 2000, and August 2001 – January 2004).
- The Hot AC chart was used for both "Casey's Hot 20" and American Top 20".
- The AC chart was used for "Casey's Countdown"/"American Top 20".
Rockin' America Top 30 Countdown also used Radio & Records charts in the mid to late 1980's, with Scott Shannon as the host of this Westwood One's weekly show. The TV Show Solid Gold used the CHR/Pop Chart. The Country chart was used for CMT's Country Countdown USA, Jeff Foxworthy's "The Foxworthy Countdown" and "Bob Kingsley's Country Top 40," but these have switched to Mediabase 24/7 chart data. Radio & Records also supplied information for past syndicated country music countdown programs (including "The Weekly Country Music Countdown" (1981-early 2000s), and it was the source used on the syndicated daily radio program "Solid Gold Country." Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 (1985-1995, 1997–2005) Red Letter Rock 20 Weekend 22[6] The Urban Contemporary chart was used for "The Countdown", a two-hour program hosted by Walt "Baby" Love. Joel Denver's Future Hits also cited R&R. During their year-end shows, they'd play various songs from the past year and note their year-end rank, although it wasn't done in countdown style.
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Post by blackbowl68 on Sept 18, 2015 15:06:32 GMT -5
So what, radio airplay was big for album oriented rock (AOR) bands like Electric Light Orchestra who sold more albums than singles, there's no impression about it, just the facts, ELO did have a US #1 hit on that Radio & Records pop chart back in 1979 and I want all 17 songs from this particular one to be inclusive with Wikipedia! That is why Billboard has an album chart and R&R does not. AOR fans want these type of acts to be overrepresented on singles charts while acts who thrive on single sales should be placed on the backburner. Sorry, that's what an album chart is for. Plus you cannot make this revision for just ELO; you must do it for all acts that accomplish this feat. Otherwise you will make them look like fan pages.
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Post by trekkielo on Sept 18, 2015 17:30:15 GMT -5
So what, radio airplay was big for album oriented rock (AOR) bands like Electric Light Orchestra who sold more albums than singles, there's no impression about it, just the facts, ELO did have a US #1 hit on that Radio & Records pop chart back in 1979 and I want all 17 songs from this particular one to be inclusive with Wikipedia! That is why Billboard has an album chart and R&R does not. AOR fans want these type of acts to be overrepresented on singles charts while acts who thrive on single sales should be placed on the backburner. Sorry, that's what an album chart is for. Plus you cannot make this revision for just ELO; you must do it for all acts that accomplish this feat. Otherwise you will make them look like fan pages. But what you say has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion over there because they are arguing IF it's official or notable, plus I don't have time for that as I've got a life, so let fans of those other acts who accomplish this feat make their own revisions, that's how Wikipedia works, most musical artist discography/album/song/DVD pages are not similarly set-up!
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Post by 80sat40fan on Sept 18, 2015 17:54:34 GMT -5
When it comes to #1s, it seems like the media likes to quote one source. The New York Times Best Seller list is considered the authoritative list for books. Someone may claim they had a #1 seller on Amazon or another source but it isn't considered as authoritative as the New York Times' list. It's the same with music... if it hits #1 on Billboard, artists can claim that distinction. If it hits #1 elsewhere but not Billboard, then most sources wouldn't claim it as a #1.
It doesn't help that Radio & Records stopped publishing in 2009. Ditto Cashbox in 1996.
By the way, I don't see anything wrong with ELO being one of the best charting artists not to have a #1 song on Billboard. I think artists like ELO, Journey and CCR are in an exclusive club of sorts... the best charting artists not to hit #1. I would rather have their careers than that of a one-hit wonder.
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Post by michaelcasselman on Sept 18, 2015 19:06:39 GMT -5
This might be an overall application of the article "Wikipedia:Handling trivia" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Handling_trivia, as well as an observation of the adage/question: "Is this a battle worth fighting (in the larger scope of things)?" At some point, the inclusion of information for the sake of it, without any relevance or context compared to other acts is propogating trivia and overly-fannish, no matter how well-intentioned.
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Post by JMW on Sept 18, 2015 20:11:39 GMT -5
By the way, I don't see anything wrong with ELO being one of the best charting artists not to have a #1 song on Billboard. That's because you're not an ELO superfan.
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Post by trekkielo on Sept 19, 2015 0:46:49 GMT -5
By the way, I don't see anything wrong with ELO being one of the best charting artists not to have a #1 song on Billboard. That's because you're not an ELO superfan. Well, at least that is better than being a Jeff Lynne's GOD, hate those false idol comparisons, super fan, which I am not by the way, so if you think I'm bad, there's tons of fans out there I've encountered who are ahole lot worse, anal in fact, believe me, I'd spit on those so-called fans.
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Post by johnnywest on Jul 4, 2018 9:47:48 GMT -5
I have to wonder why Whitburn has already done books based on chart information from Billboard, Cashbox and Record World, but still has not done anything with R&R.
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Post by djjoe1960 on Jul 4, 2018 10:18:26 GMT -5
I have to wonder why Whitburn has already done books based on chart information from Billboard, Cashbox and Record World, but still has not done anything with R&R. Maybe Radio & Records chart data is still under copyright--or maybe Whitburn & Company feel that a chart that started in 1973 does not have the same interest from 'chart fiends' as charts that started earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 15:01:48 GMT -5
I have to wonder why Whitburn has already done books based on chart information from Billboard, Cashbox and Record World, but still has not done anything with R&R. If there were ever a R&R CHR charts book for each decade like were done with the Hot 100 I would so buy them.
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Post by OnWithTheCountdown on Jul 4, 2018 15:47:35 GMT -5
Hopefully more R&R PDFs surface in the near future - been occasionally checking out the American Radio History website from time to time. 1973 to 1981 is very spotty, 1982 has a few more, then 1983 to 2009 there's not many missing at all.
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Post by johnnywest on Jul 6, 2018 7:26:37 GMT -5
The producers of Casey's Top 40 really had no choice but to go with R&R when they started in 1989 because AT40 had exclusive rights to the Billboard charts. Wasn't "American Country Countdown" using Billboard as well?
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Post by adam31 on Jul 6, 2018 7:32:14 GMT -5
Yes, but ACC was a sister show of AT40 also produced by ABC Watermark. The producers of Casey's Top 40 really had no choice but to go with R&R when they started in 1989 because AT40 had exclusive rights to the Billboard charts. Wasn't "American Country Countdown" using Billboard as well?
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Post by djjoe1960 on Jul 6, 2018 7:39:41 GMT -5
The main question asked was R & R considered an 'official' chart--you betcha. Especially by the radio crowd that subscribed to the magazine. It more closely reflected what stations (of a particular format) were playing--as opposed to what the public was buying; which is what Billboard has tracked for well over 100 years. So if you are programming a radio station for mass appeal (and for commercial revenue) you liked R & R; but if you worked in the music industry and wanted to know what was selling--Billboard was/is the publication for you. And since R & R is no more, Mediabase 24/7 is now the airplay king.
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