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Post by mkarns on Apr 16, 2012 23:41:36 GMT -5
The interesting thing is that many artists have #1 songs that spend fewer weeks than another of their songs that spend more time on the chart. Adding up chart points, "Rosanna", Toto's #2 hit, has more than Africa, Toto's #1 hit. Joel Whitburn relies more on peak position and would probably count Africa higher, but if American Top 40 had broadcast an extensive end of the 80s countdown, their calculations would have probably put Rosanna higher, since they generally used a combination of weeks on the chart along with peak position and bonuses (Rosanna spent 5 weeks at #2, Africa spent 1 week at #1). Casey's Top 40 did a decade end countdown which included "Rosanna" but not "Africa". Of course, this used Radio & Records, and the two songs reversed their peak positions there ("Rosanna" was #1 in R&R for 4 weeks, while "Africa" only hit #2, for 2 weeks). |
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Post by doomsdaymachine on Apr 16, 2012 23:43:43 GMT -5
The Clash:
Highest charting hit/Biggest hit: "Rock the Casbah" (#9, 1982-83)
Signature hit: Hard to say for sure, but "Rock the Casbah" definitely ain't it!
***
Eddie Floyd:
Highest charting hit/Biggest hit: "Bring It On Home To Me" (#17, 1968)
Signature hit: "Knock On Wood" (#28, 1966)
***
The Romantics:
Highest charting hit/Biggest hit: "Talking In Your Sleep" (#3, 1983-84)
Signature hit: "What I Like About You" (#49, 1980)
***
Johnnie Taylor:
Highest charting hit/Biggest hit: "Disco Lady" (#1, 1976)
Signature hit: "Who's Making Love" (#5, 1968)
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Apr 17, 2012 9:06:40 GMT -5
Doomsday, I am not a big fan of The Clash or that song, but Signature hit means the one you are most remembered for by the masses. If its not Rock The Casbah, then it is Should I Stay Or Should I Go.
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Post by matt on Apr 17, 2012 9:40:12 GMT -5
The Clash: Highest charting hit/Biggest hit: "Rock the Casbah" (#9, 1982-83) Signature hit: Hard to say for sure, but "Rock the Casbah" definitely ain't it! How about "Train In Vain"? Could make an argument for that being a signature hit...though "Should I Stay..." is a very well known Clash song too. |
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Apr 17, 2012 11:36:55 GMT -5
Id say Train in Vain, while a great song, the other two are more widely known by the majority of people.
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Post by matt on Apr 17, 2012 11:55:12 GMT -5
Queen: Highest Charting Hit: Crazy Little Thing Called Love (#1 for 4 weeks) Biggest Hit: Another One Bites The Dust (#1 for 3 weeks, on charts 21 weeks) Signature Hit: Body Language (HAH, Just kidding) Bohemian Rhapsody (#9 in 1976 & #2 in 1992) OK, so...no doubt that "Bohemian Rhapsody" is up there (but would it be if not for Wayne's World?), but what about "We Will Rock You/We Are the Champions"? Is there any song (other than maybe "Rock and Roll Part 2") that gets the same exposure on a regular basis, since "We Will Rock You" has been played regularly at sporting events for the last 35 years? Curious as to what everyone's take is... BTW, LOL re: "Body Language" |
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Post by chrislc on Apr 17, 2012 13:02:01 GMT -5
Queen: Highest Charting Hit: Crazy Little Thing Called Love (#1 for 4 weeks) Biggest Hit: Another One Bites The Dust (#1 for 3 weeks, on charts 21 weeks) Signature Hit: Body Language (HAH, Just kidding) Bohemian Rhapsody (#9 in 1976 & #2 in 1992) OK, so...no doubt that "Bohemian Rhapsody" is up there (but would it be if not for Wayne's World?), but what about "We Will Rock You/We Are the Champions"? Is there any song (other than maybe "Rock and Roll Part 2") that gets the same exposure on a regular basis, since "We Will Rock You" has been played regularly at sporting events for the last 35 years? Curious as to what everyone's take is... BTW, LOL re: "Body Language" One one hand, when I saw Bohemian Rhapsody I thought to myself "of course" and didn't even think of We Will Rock You. On the other hand, when you mentioned We Will Rock You, I immediately thought "well of course that's their signature song, not Bohemian Rhapsody." I think We Will Rock You is an even more iconic song, and it's amazing how timeless their songs are. Almost Beatle-like, I think. |
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Post by dukelightning on Apr 17, 2012 15:21:35 GMT -5
And by Joel Whitburn's and AT40's definition, "We Will Rock You" is an album cut. How many artists have an album cut as their signature song? IMO, No Doubt does with "Don't Speak", the Goo-Goo Dolls do with "Iris", Counting Crows do with "Mr. Jones" and the John Lennon fans out there may say that the Beatles signature song is "A Day in the Life". Not sure if the Fab Four really have one song that can definitively be called a signature song though.
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Post by doomsdaymachine on Apr 17, 2012 16:07:18 GMT -5
Doomsday, I am not a big fan of The Clash or that song, but Signature hit means the one you are most remembered for by the masses. If its not Rock The Casbah, then it is Should I Stay Or Should I Go. What difference does it make whether or not you're a fan of the Clash? That statement has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. In any case, for hardcore Clash fans - and I know quite a few - the band's signature song would be more along the lines of "White Riot" or "White Man in Hammersmith Palais," both from their self-titled 1977 debut album. |
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Post by freakyflybry on Apr 17, 2012 23:26:55 GMT -5
And by Joel Whitburn's and AT40's definition, "We Will Rock You" is an album cut. How many artists have an album cut as their signature song? IMO, No Doubt does with "Don't Speak", the Goo-Goo Dolls do with "Iris", Counting Crows do with "Mr. Jones" and the John Lennon fans out there may say that the Beatles signature song is "A Day in the Life". Not sure if the Fab Four really have one song that can definitively be called a signature song though. Led Zeppelin does too; "Stairway To Heaven" was never released as a single, but is surely their signature song. |
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Post by vince on Apr 17, 2012 23:49:44 GMT -5
Determining whether a song is bigger than another can be measured in several ways: 1. Weeks at the peak position 2. Weeks on the chart Can't Fight This Feeling did spend more weeks at the peak (#1) than Keep on Loving You. But Keep on Loving You had more weeks on the chart (Top 40). So either song could lay claim to being the biggest. The interesting thing is that many artists have #1 songs that spend fewer weeks than another of their songs that spend more time on the chart. Adding up chart points, "Rosanna", Toto's #2 hit, has more than Africa, Toto's #1 hit. Joel Whitburn relies more on peak position and would probably count Africa higher, but if American Top 40 had broadcast an extensive end of the 80s countdown, their calculations would have probably put Rosanna higher, since they generally used a combination of weeks on the chart along with peak position and bonuses (Rosanna spent 5 weeks at #2, Africa spent 1 week at #1). If Vince is around, maybe he can weigh in on this a bit more. He's our chart calculation expert. Determining a biggest hit by chart peak, as Joel Whitburn does in his Pop Annual books, is probably more objective as you go by highest position and weeks spent at the highest position. This still can yield questionable results since for example "Penny Lane" by the Beatles that spent 1 week at #1 and 10 weeks on the Hot 100 outranks "Waiting For A Girl Like You" by Foreigner that was #2 10 weeks, in the top 10 15 weeks, and on the Hot 100 23 weeks. Using a point system is more subjective as there are many variations of point systems. Using the Journey example, by BB's point system used in 1982 and 1983, "Open Arms" has 1357 points while "Separate Ways" has 1370 points. Going by AT40's point system, "Open Arms" has 664 points and "Separate Ways" has 557 points. |
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Post by bestmusicexpert on Apr 18, 2012 4:24:51 GMT -5
It makes a difference if you're a fan or not because a signature song by a group isn't defined just by their fans. Its the general public.
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Post by dukelightning on Apr 18, 2012 7:06:48 GMT -5
Determining whether a song is bigger than another can be measured in several ways: 1. Weeks at the peak position 2. Weeks on the chart Can't Fight This Feeling did spend more weeks at the peak (#1) than Keep on Loving You. But Keep on Loving You had more weeks on the chart (Top 40). So either song could lay claim to being the biggest. The interesting thing is that many artists have #1 songs that spend fewer weeks than another of their songs that spend more time on the chart. Adding up chart points, "Rosanna", Toto's #2 hit, has more than Africa, Toto's #1 hit. Joel Whitburn relies more on peak position and would probably count Africa higher, but if American Top 40 had broadcast an extensive end of the 80s countdown, their calculations would have probably put Rosanna higher, since they generally used a combination of weeks on the chart along with peak position and bonuses (Rosanna spent 5 weeks at #2, Africa spent 1 week at #1). If Vince is around, maybe he can weigh in on this a bit more. He's our chart calculation expert. Determining a biggest hit by chart peak, as Joel Whitburn does in his Pop Annual books, is probably more objective as you go by highest position and weeks spent at the highest position. This still can yield questionable results since for example "Penny Lane" by the Beatles that spent 1 week at #1 and 10 weeks on the Hot 100 outranks "Waiting For A Girl Like You" by Foreigner that was #2 10 weeks, in the top 10 15 weeks, and on the Hot 100 23 weeks. Using a point system is more subjective as there are many variations of point systems. Using the Journey example, by BB's point system used in 1982 and 1983, "Open Arms" has 1357 points while "Separate Ways" has 1370 points. Going by AT40's point system, "Open Arms" has 664 points and "Separate Ways" has 557 points. I vehemently oppose Joel Whitburn's way of rankings songs. A case in point is John Mellancamp or Cougar as he was known by in 1982. Whitburn would put "Jack and Diane" above "Hurts so Good" simply because it made it to #1 and HSG did not. But in the year end countdown, Casey specifically points out that even though that happened, HSG is his biggest hit because it ranked higher than J&D. Just going by peak position is the lazy way to determine an artist's biggest hit. That's why this thread differentiates between highest charting hit and biggest hit because they are not necessarily the same thing. AT40's methodology has to be better than Billboard's too because with 2 more weeks in the top 10 and a whopping 7 more weeks in the top 5, "Open Arms" is clearly a bigger hit than "Separate Ways". |
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Post by Caseyfan4everRyanfanNever on Apr 18, 2012 12:20:49 GMT -5
Dukedeb, I'm glad you weighed in on this. I, too, dislike Joel Whitburn's ranking system. Time on chart matters more than peak position in cases where there is a weak #1 and other strong non #1 top 10s from a given artist. According to Whitburn's ranking weak #1s like "Sailing" and "The One That You Love" outrank "Ride Like the Wind" and "All Out of Love". Looking at the AT40 year end rankings, both the #2s "Ride Like The Wind" and "All Out of Love" are far bigger hits than "Sailing" and "The One That You Love" and most fans would probably agree. That's why I consider AT40 methods 100% better than Whitburn.
If I were Whitburn, I'd stick to just producing artist and peak listings instead of trying to rank songs of all time.
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Post by Big Red Machine on Apr 18, 2012 12:47:50 GMT -5
I think you're right Caseyfan4ever and DukeDeb. If it were up to Whitburn, "65 Love Affair" would be Paul Davis biggest hit instead of "I Go Crazy." His general formula doesn't stick. Longevity is just as important, if not more than the peak. As in life, it's all about the timing of when the song charted.
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