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Post by dukelightning on Nov 11, 2017 8:53:39 GMT -5
Thanks for that great tidbit of info about "Jack and Diane". I suppose I should put my English teacher hat on as I recall what a few of them said back in the day. And that is that if there are 2 things, you say 'one is bigger than the other'. The word 'biggest' only applies to a group of at least 3 things. In other words to say a song is the biggest dropper in a countdown, based on that English grammar lesson, there would have to be at least 3 droppers. So what is the highest in the countdown that the biggest dropper has been when there are at least 3 droppers?  |
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Post by woolebull on Nov 11, 2017 11:18:58 GMT -5
Thanks for that great tidbit of info about "Jack and Diane". I suppose I should put my English teacher hat on as I recall what a few of them said back in the day. And that is that if there are 2 things, you say 'one is bigger than the other'. The word 'biggest' only applies to a group of at least 3 things. In other words to say a song is the biggest dropper in a countdown, based on that English grammar lesson, there would have to be at least 3 droppers. So what is the highest in the countdown that the biggest dropper has been when there are at least 3 droppers? 😂 That would have been even better if Casey had just busted out, "The big dropper of the week" on the 10/30/82 show! Your grammar usage statement makes me realize how much we just assume there are usually three droppers that stay in the countdown. As for biggest droppers since the 10/30/82 show...I'd check when "Two Hearts" dropped from the top spot. It might have been the biggest droppers that week, but it was 1989 so there is a good chance it wasn't. |
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Post by mga707 on Nov 11, 2017 11:55:03 GMT -5
^Look drops all the way to #8 this week. So it stands to reason that without the record company push, its chart run the last few weeks would have been 4-5- 6-7-8 instead of the 4-5-1-2-8 run that it actually had. Btw, as it is, this is a #1 song that spent just 2 weeks in the top 3. What is the last #1 hit to spend less than 3 weeks in the top 3. Certainly has 'chart manipulation' written all over it if you ask me! And these shenanigans may have caused something else in the unprecedented or almost category. "Look What You Made Me Do" is the biggest dropper of the week, dropping from 2 to 8. How many times in AT40 history has the biggest dropper been in the top 10. And what is the latest in the countdown that the biggest dropper has been heard? The answer is one of my favorite chart quirks and ties in quite nicely with the subject of chart manipulation. The latest the biggest dropper has ever been played was on the 10/30/82 show when "Jack and Diane" tumbled all the way down from number 1 to number...2! Yup, on that countdown only one song dropped that stayed in the countdown, and it only dropped one point. The crazy thing, however, is that of the five songs that dropped off the chart that week, four dropped from the top 21, with "Abracadabra" disappearing from all the way up at #10. The other one dropped from 31 to 74. But of the 40 that made up the top 40 that week, only #1 dropped. I really wish Casey would have said something like "plunging all the way down from #1 to #2 this week, here is the week's biggest dropper"! "Look" is having an unprecedented modern run. To put it in perspective, Logic didn't hit the top 20 until week 10 or 11 of its still upward, on going run. For "Look" to go up and down so fast would make it a great candidate to have charted in the year commemorated by her last album. "1989" 😂 Assuming there must be a current song out titled "Look", by a female who has an album (are there still such things?) titled "1989"...  |
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Post by mkarns on Nov 11, 2017 12:45:17 GMT -5
Thanks for that great tidbit of info about "Jack and Diane". I suppose I should put my English teacher hat on as I recall what a few of them said back in the day. And that is that if there are 2 things, you say 'one is bigger than the other'. The word 'biggest' only applies to a group of at least 3 things. In other words to say a song is the biggest dropper in a countdown, based on that English grammar lesson, there would have to be at least 3 droppers. So what is the highest in the countdown that the biggest dropper has been when there are at least 3 droppers? 😂 That would have been even better if Casey had just busted out, "The big dropper of the week" on the 10/30/82 show! Your grammar usage statement makes me realize how much we just assume there are usually three droppers that stay in the countdown. As for biggest droppers since the 10/30/82 show...I'd check when "Two Hearts" dropped from the top spot. It might have been the biggest droppers that week, but it was 1989 so there is a good chance it wasn't. It wasn't. I checked and the 2/4/89 show had four songs that dropped more than the 9 notches "Two Hearts" fell. Biggest fall was a tie between "Smooth Criminal" (Michael Jackson) and "Put a Little Love In Your Heart" (Annie Lennox/Al Green), each of which plunged 16 notches. |
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Post by woolebull on Nov 11, 2017 13:15:51 GMT -5
😂 That would have been even better if Casey had just busted out, "The big dropper of the week" on the 10/30/82 show! Your grammar usage statement makes me realize how much we just assume there are usually three droppers that stay in the countdown. As for biggest droppers since the 10/30/82 show...I'd check when "Two Hearts" dropped from the top spot. It might have been the biggest droppers that week, but it was 1989 so there is a good chance it wasn't. It wasn't. I checked and the 2/4/89 show had four songs that dropped more than the 9 notches "Two Hearts" fell. Biggest fall was a tie between "Smooth Criminal" (Michael Jackson) and "Put a Little Love In Your Heart" (Annie Lennox/Al Green), each of which plunged 16 notches. I was just able to check it, and that is absolutely correct. Thanks, mkarns ! I checked, "Don't You Want Me" as well since it dropped 1-7. It was the second biggest dropper that week. "Play The Game Tonight" by Kansas dropped the week of 7/24/82 from 17-28. |
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Post by dukelightning on Nov 11, 2017 19:14:09 GMT -5
The flipside of the question about the latest in a countdown that the biggest dropper has been is what you guys are posting about. The highest position that the biggest dropper was the previous week. Taylor Swift may have that record. Has to be a #1 hit to be higher than that. Just checked all the weeks of the big drops from #1 in 1974 and nothing came close. "Rock Me Gently" came the closest when it fell from 1 to 12, the biggest dropper was "Who Do You Think You Are" dropping from 15 to 29. Interesting that the 14 notch drop that had would have tied those drops from 1 to 15 a few weeks later. Btw, after "Nothing From Nothing" fell from 1 to 15, the week after "Then Came You" did the same. What was the biggest dropper that week. Why, it was none other than "Nothing From Nothing" which fell from 15 to 39!
And the biggest drop from #2 during the 70s and 80s was "Float On" dropping to 19. That 17 notch drop was barely topped by the biggest dropper which was "Higher and Higher". It fell from 20 to 38 and is also a #2 hit btw.
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Post by woolebull on Nov 11, 2017 23:12:01 GMT -5
The flipside of the question about the latest in a countdown that the biggest dropper has been is what you guys are posting about. The highest position that the biggest dropper was the previous week. Taylor Swift may have that record. Has to be a #1 hit to be higher than that. Just checked all the weeks of the big drops from #1 in 1974 and nothing came close. "Rock Me Gently" came the closest when it fell from 1 to 12, the biggest dropper was "Who Do You Think You Are" dropping from 15 to 29. Interesting that the 14 notch drop that had would have tied those drops from 1 to 15 a few weeks later. Btw, after "Nothing From Nothing" fell from 1 to 15, the week after "Then Came You" did the same. What was the biggest dropper that week. Why, it was none other than "Nothing From Nothing" which fell from 15 to 39! And the biggest drop from #2 during the 70s and 80s was "Float On" dropping to 19. That 17 notch drop was barely topped by the biggest dropper which was "Higher and Higher". It fell from 20 to 38 and is also a #2 hit btw. Besides Mellencamp (Cougar), I think you're right. One interesting side note: The September 7, 1991 chart saw Roxette drop from 2 to 15 with "Fading Like A Flower". It was not the biggest dropper. The biggest dropper from that week, however, might be the second (third counting Mellencamp)biggest dropper from the highest position in AT 40 history. Lenny Kravitz dropped from 3 to 19 with "It Ain't Over ('Til It's Over). And one more side note: Dees doesn't get a ton of credit from us for keeping legitimate charts. However this week, "Look" dropped from 3 to 27. I've been listening to AT 40 since 1982, and Dees since 1984 and I can't remember another song tanking like that. Even more interesting to me though is that I think Dees is treating the "Look" run more accurately than AT. It debuted at 12 (reasonable, maybe a tad low), peaked at 2 (reasonable, maybe a tad high), and then today (honestly not that far off). |
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Post by woolebull on Nov 11, 2017 23:24:17 GMT -5
And we have a tie with Swift! Rick Springfield dropped from 2-14 on June 19, 1982 making it the week's biggest dropper.
All of these in some way are because of manipulated runs up (and down) the charts.
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Post by dukelightning on Nov 12, 2017 8:08:48 GMT -5
Great catch! Yes that would qualify for a manipulated situation with the 1982 chart because back then songs were taking huge drops due to the chart director. So there probably should have been a bigger dropper within the top 40 that week that instead, dropped all the way out of the top 40. A week where the biggest dropper is in the top 10 is yet to be found. I am guessing that if such a week exists, it is either in the first couple weeks of a year or in this century. Those are the time frames when there was/is not much chart movement and a drop within the top 10 could be the biggest dropper.
Yes that drop on the Dees chart could very well be a record for a pop countdown. The only thing that tops that is ACC where #1 songs routinely fell to the 30s in the 80s. Of course there was manipulation there too.
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Post by Hervard on Nov 12, 2017 11:59:33 GMT -5
^Look drops all the way to #8 this week. So it stands to reason that without the record company push, its chart run the last few weeks would have been 4-5- 6-7-8 instead of the 4-5-1-2-8 run that it actually had. Btw, as it is, this is a #1 song that spent just 2 weeks in the top 3. What is the last #1 hit to spend less than 3 weeks in the top 3. Certainly has 'chart manipulation' written all over it if you ask me! And these shenanigans may have caused something else in the unprecedented or almost category. "Look What You Made Me Do" is the biggest dropper of the week, dropping from 2 to 8. How many times in AT40 history has the biggest dropper been in the top 10. And what is the latest in the countdown that the biggest dropper has been heard? The answer is one of my favorite chart quirks and ties in quite nicely with the subject of chart manipulation. The latest the biggest dropper has ever been played was on the 10/30/82 show when "Jack and Diane" tumbled all the way down from number 1 to number...2! Yup, on that countdown only one song dropped that stayed in the countdown, and it only dropped one point. The crazy thing, however, is that of the five songs that dropped off the chart that week, four dropped from the top 21, with "Abracadabra" disappearing from all the way up at #10. The other one dropped from 31 to 74. But of the 40 that made up the top 40 that week, only #1 dropped. I really wish Casey would have said something like "plunging all the way down from #1 to #2 this week, here is the week's biggest dropper"! "Look" is having an unprecedented modern run. To put it in perspective, Logic didn't hit the top 20 until week 10 or 11 of its still upward, on going run. For "Look" to go up and down so fast would make it a great candidate to have charted in the year commemorated by her last album. "1989" 😂 Yeah, the late 1980s was when the chart moved like lightning. The last time a #1 song spent twelve weeks on top was, I think, "Step By Step" by New Kids On The Block. That one zipped up and down in a mere 11 weeks - and IIRC, it was the lowest-ranked #1 song on the YE chart - on AT40, anyway. |
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Post by woolebull on Nov 12, 2017 20:38:09 GMT -5
The answer is one of my favorite chart quirks and ties in quite nicely with the subject of chart manipulation. The latest the biggest dropper has ever been played was on the 10/30/82 show when "Jack and Diane" tumbled all the way down from number 1 to number...2! Yup, on that countdown only one song dropped that stayed in the countdown, and it only dropped one point. The crazy thing, however, is that of the five songs that dropped off the chart that week, four dropped from the top 21, with "Abracadabra" disappearing from all the way up at #10. The other one dropped from 31 to 74. But of the 40 that made up the top 40 that week, only #1 dropped. I really wish Casey would have said something like "plunging all the way down from #1 to #2 this week, here is the week's biggest dropper"! "Look" is having an unprecedented modern run. To put it in perspective, Logic didn't hit the top 20 until week 10 or 11 of its still upward, on going run. For "Look" to go up and down so fast would make it a great candidate to have charted in the year commemorated by her last album. "1989" 😂 Yeah, the late 1980s was when the chart moved like lightning. The last time a #1 song spent twelve weeks on top was, I think, "Step By Step" by New Kids On The Block. That one zipped up and down in a mere 11 weeks - and IIRC, it was the lowest-ranked #1 song on the YE chart - on AT40, anyway. Milli Vanilli first hit the Billboard top 10 on 3/11/89 with, "Girl You Know It's True". The last week they charted in the top 10 was 3/3/90. In 51 weeks, they would have five top five hits, all songs released after the preceding one was dropping. Doing the math: every ten weeks Milli had a new top 5 hit, including three number ones and a number two. I always think of that when I think how fast the charts were in 1989 and 1990. |
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Post by woolebull on Nov 12, 2017 20:44:09 GMT -5
Great catch! Yes that would qualify for a manipulated situation with the 1982 chart because back then songs were taking huge drops due to the chart director. So there probably should have been a bigger dropper within the top 40 that week that instead, dropped all the way out of the top 40. A week where the biggest dropper is in the top 10 is yet to be found. I am guessing that if such a week exists, it is either in the first couple weeks of a year or in this century. Those are the time frames when there was/is not much chart movement and a drop within the top 10 could be the biggest dropper. Yes that drop on the Dees chart could very well be a record for a pop countdown. The only thing that tops that is ACC where #1 songs routinely fell to the 30s in the 80s. Of course there was manipulation there too. To top off the "Look" drop, right before it you had the biggest mover of the week: "Thunder" by Imagine Dragons going 15-9. I know it happens some, but being the biggest mover into the top 10 doesn't happen all the time (I can think of "Still" and "Le Freak" off the top of my head. I'm sure there are some more). Interestingly, because of some deflation, "Havana" might pull it off again next week. |
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Post by johnnywest on Nov 13, 2017 12:09:04 GMT -5
One thing that always seemed strange to me was when "Found Out About You" re-entered the R&R Top 40 chart at #17 in April 1994, after having a long chart run and then 2 weeks off. After it came back, it was mysteriously gone the next week. At the time, there was no recurrent rule in effect.
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Post by Hervard on Nov 13, 2017 14:24:56 GMT -5
One thing that always seemed strange to me was when "Found Out About You" re-entered the R&R Top 40 chart at #17 in April 1994, after having a long chart run and then 2 weeks off. After it came back, it was mysteriously gone the next week. At the time, there was no recurrent rule in effect. Regarding that, I posted this message a few years back: Since that was the only song to re-enter the survey that week, I'm wondering if there was a rule about old songs re-entering the survey, and a statistical error may have been involved (since, during the first few weeks of the new chart system, there were bound to be a few kinks that needed to be ironed out). Moreover, I don't even remember hearing the song on the countdown that day - I had to check the chart to see what the heck was at #17. I'm wondering if the station skipped the segment with that song, though I had heard the songs adjacent to it on the chart. Perhaps the segment cut out before they got to "Found Out About You". The R&R chart seemed to have its own recurrent rule in 1994, though it seemed very arbitrary, whatever it was (as some songs were allowed to run their natural course on the chart while others were pulled off from near the halfway point). Reminds me a little of the American Top 40/American Top 20 charts during the October, 2000 - August, 2001 period. |
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Post by johnnywest on Nov 17, 2017 20:10:56 GMT -5
It may have been accidental, but several songs on R&R's CHR chart went beyond their allowed 26 weeks under the 25/26 recurrent rule. And during this time (mid 1995 to mid 1999), R&R didn't have a "weeks on" column, so it was difficult to notice unless you were keeping track yourself.
It was speculated on another message board that perhaps "Because You Loved Me" was left on for another week or two to keep "Pepper" from debuting so Casey wouldn't have to introduce the artist behind that song. But then "Pepper" peaked at #42 so it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway.
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