Whitburns latest offering

[Deleted]

While I have a moment in this exciting first preseason game both the Jags and Bucs are playing (fortunately it's against each other so only 1 game this week) I got a flyer in the mail that there is some book coming soon from Record Research called "Top Pop Playlist 1970-1984." This stuff never really interested me to begin with because I would always see things like "the months top playlist" or something which really in and of itself seemed irrelevant. However, then I read the following in the description this time which made it even more worthless, "spanning 15 years are 180 separate and unique playlists as each of the 4,500 songs can only appear on one playlist - no repeats!" Ok, then what's the point? "You Light Up My Life" "Physical" "Billie Jean" to name 3 only appear once even though they were huge hits over several months? What would be the point of purchasing this? Sounds like a waste of time in producing and a waste of money buying it unless I'm missing it's relevance somehow.

[jlthorpe]

The only way I see this as being relevant is if you're doing something like the old XM IT specials, where you're playing every song from the past to the present in chronological order. The playlists organize everything by the month they peaked, so they'd be good to get a chronological rundown of every major hit from the mid-50s through the mid-80s.

But personally, I don't see a real demand for these books either, and wonder why this got the greenlight instead of other more important chart books. Why not an update on some of the older books, like Top Adult Songs or Hot Dance/Disco? Or more eBooks? Or new chart books, along the lines of the Cashbox and Record World books?

[chadstevens]

I suspect - as much as I love Joel Whitburn and Record Research - it's getting harder and harder to sell new editions of Top Pop Singles every few years, with all the limitations of the Hot 100 in a 21st century musical environment. So it's likely just something to keep new product in the pipeline. Thus the Record World and Cashbox anthologies. Great stuff: I bought all four, but they're one-offs with no potential for any updates in the future.

I've got the country and R&B anthologies that Cashbox put out in the 1980s, and would love to see those charts (and RW's for that matter) get the Whitburn treatment, but they'd also probably be hard sells.

[rayshae3]

Aug 25, 2014 18:38:22 GMT -5 chadstevens said:

I suspect - as much as I love Joel Whitburn and Record Research - it's getting harder and harder to sell new editions of Top Pop Singles every few years, with all the limitations of the Hot 100 in a 21st century musical environment. So it's likely just something to keep new product in the pipeline. Thus the Record World and Cashbox anthologies. Great stuff: I bought all four, but they're one-offs with no potential for any updates in the future.

I've got the country and R&B anthologies that Cashbox put out in the 1980s, and would love to see those charts (and RW's for that matter) get the Whitburn treatment, but they'd also probably be hard sells.

Still on the drawing board, so no date yet. But Whitburn will have more CB and RW genre books soon. Most likely starting with a Music Vendor/Record World country book (its chart was much bigger than Billboard’s in the 1950s and 60s.)

[chadstevens]

When the remaining RW and Cashbox charts get Whitburned, I'll be all OVER them! I've got just about every RR offering.

I have the Cashbox anthologies that they put out in the 1980s, plus various other countries' chart anthologies (RPM in Canada, Guinness for the UK, etc.) Did RW or any other trade publication (R&R, Gavin, CMJ, etc.) ever put out chart compilations of their own?

[Deleted]

RR offering? What's been out with R&R chart info other than the actual newspaper/magazine?

[chadstevens]

Nothing to my knowledge.  I was wondering IF there was ever a chart history of any US trade publication other than the Big Three (BB, CB, RW).

[jlthorpe]

Sept 10, 2014 4:10:49 GMT -5 @paul said:

RR offering? What's been out with R&R chart info other than the actual newspaper/magazine?

I think he meant Record Research when he said "RR".

[Deleted]

Ok. That would make sense. In the way it was said I took it as the "Radio & Records" acronym just without the &. My mistake.

[johnnywest]

I would be very interested in an R&R book, similar to the Billboard, Cash Box and Record World books he's put out. Since Rick and Casey used them for many years, it's the chart I'm the most familiar with. Well 1973-2006 anyway. When R&R was bought out by Billboard, it was basically just the Billboard Radio Monitor with R&R's name.

[chadstevens]

Sept 11, 2014 20:43:52 GMT -5 johnnywest said:

I would be very interested in an R&R book, similar to the Billboard, Cash Box and Record World books he's put out. Since Rick and Casey used them for many years, it's the chart I'm the most familiar with. Well 1973-2006 anyway. When R&R was bought out by Billboard, it was basically just the Billboard Radio Monitor with R&R's name.

Did R&R ever do deep charts with 75, 100, or more rungs like the BB/CB/RW charts did?  Everything I've seen of theirs was 40 or 50 positions. 
Fine for what it is, but I think Whitburn's books have evolved in that one of their main purposes is in rediscovering and listing as many obscure and forgotten oldies as possible.  Especially as most of them can now actually be heard on the internet.  Thus the additions of the regional songs and the compilations of the obscurity-filled CB and RW "bubbling under" equivalents, and the disappearance of the "price guides."

A 40 or 50 position chart just isn't going to uncover too many truly forgotten 45s that aren't on any of the already compiled charts.

[Deleted]

Believe it was only 50 at most. At least their main one that was used on the countdown shows.

[mkarns]

Sept 12, 2014 16:23:08 GMT -5 @paul said:

Believe it was only 50 at most. At least their main one that was used on the countdown shows.

Radio & Records chart size:

Oct 1973-Nov 1974: 20 (sometimes 21-23; inconsistent)
Nov 1974-Oct 1976: 40
Oct 1976-May 1983: 30
Jun 1983-May 1995: 40
May 1995-Aug 2006: 50

In August 2006 R&R was acquired by Billboard and issued as a sister publication; it ended altogether in 2009. Mediabase, which had supplied R&R with data in its later years, continues to put out a weekly top 50 pop chart, with daily CHR updates extending to 200 or more positions.

[dukelightning]

Predicting all 4 optional extras correctly if Premiere ever broadcast CT40s would be one hell of an accomplishment seeing as there would be 1) no charts available to look at since R&R charts are not available anywhere and 2) even if they were, until 1995, it was only 40 songs so nothing below the top 40 in the heading into the top 40 mode as with the Hot 100.

[mkarns]

Sept 12, 2014 16:56:25 GMT -5 dukelightning said:

Predicting all 4 optional extras correctly if Premiere ever broadcast CT40s would be one hell of an accomplishment seeing as there would be 1) no charts available to look at since R&R charts are not available anywhere and 2) even if they were, until 1995, it was only 40 songs so nothing below the top 40 in the heading into the top 40 mode as with the Hot 100.

Old Radio Shows has all the CT40 charts. This site enables you to at least search on the acts by name and see their R&R/Mediabase chart history, covering up to a top 50, from 1973 to the present:

wweb.uta.edu/faculty/gghunt/charts/chart.html

If I were Premiere and were preparing CT40s or AT40s from the 1990s or 2000s, then for optional extras I'd probably just pick four reasonably well-known or remembered songs that were moving toward the chart (or maybe had recently been on it) that weren't on that week's countdown, regardless of what if any position they might have been at that particular week. If that ever becomes reality, I suspect they'd follow something like that approach.