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Post by mkarns on Jul 10, 2013 19:44:18 GMT -5
Vinyl singles sales DID drop off in the later '80s. The lack of sales of vinyl 45" singles starting around 1986 was a strong indicator that vinyl storage media was on the way out. CD's were becoming the norms later in the 80's, and people still use them to this day. The Vinyl record officially died in 1991, and by the summer of 1991, look at what happened - Paula Abdul's "Rush Rush" spent the most weeks at #1 since 1985. And Bryan Adams' "Everything I Do (I Do It For You)" spent 7 weeks at #1 (the most since 1984, if I recall). It turned out that sales of singles rose again, even if it's just CD and cassette singles. Very few songs spent a long time during the dry period for single sales (4 weeks at #1 during that time period was an accomplishment, it seemed). Even though "Roll With It" by Steve Winwood spent 4 weeks at #1 in 1988, it ended up being the #10 song of 1988. The top song of 1988 spent one less week at #1, if I recall, and that was "Faith". Must have been other criteria that determined if the song was to be the #1 song of 1988. "Faith" was #1 for four weeks if you count the "frozen" week when Billboard didn't publish. Its chart run was a bit longer than "Roll With It"'s, and apparently it registered higher in other aspects of Billboard's point system. I think they counted the frozen weeks in that year's year-end chart; there's a real preponderance of hits from December 1987/January 1988 high up the chart. "Everything I Do (I Do It For You)"'s 7 weeks at #1 were the longest since the Police's "Every Breath You Take", which was #1 for 8 weeks in summer 1983. |
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Post by dukelightning on Jul 10, 2013 20:12:23 GMT -5
I've read articles back and forth about the relative inaccuracy of charts prior to computerization/Soundscan. Came across this when googling Wardlow's history. Thought it's specifically about a Carpenters song, it mentions many key issues. Specifically key is Mr. Hagerty's take: www.amcorner.com/forum/threads/goofus-re-evaluated.13167/page-2One of the scenarios Mr. Hagerty mentions (and I am paraphrasing) is that after a few weeks on the chart where a record had been climbing solely based on wholesale, it then needs retail demand to continue climbing the chart. One record on this week's 70s show that seems to fit this scenario to a tea is "The Hustle". It climbed from 35 to 32 to 29 and then to #7. With the disco craze just kicking in around this time, it seems like there was huge demand at retail to take a middling record and push the dance floor classic-to-be into the top 10 in one fell swoop and eventually to #1. |
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Post by Hervard on Jul 11, 2013 10:41:35 GMT -5
It is an interesting read. My question for people who listened to, or were in the loop, back in the 70's: Was it assumed or said that "Billboard" used just sales to calculate their charts. And if that is so, why would Casey go out of his way on the 11/10/79 show to, even if it was inadvertent, bring in the talk about airplay being a component as well? Things seemed so out of line between BB and R and R during that time, and maybe that is because one was using sales and the other airplay. For example I joked about "Pop Musik" being the reason Casey gave the 11/10/79 disclaimer. But just using that song you can see the difference between the two: on R and R, "Pop Musik" peaked at number 3...on 10/6/79, four weeks before it would peak at 1 on BB. On the week "Musik" was 1 on BB, it was down to 23 on R and R...pretty big discrepancy no matter how they calculated the numbers. There were a few instances where songs #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 had already peaked AND fallen off the week they were #1 on BB. Two that I can recall are "Jessie's Girl" by Rick Springfield and "Who Can It Be Now" by Men At Work. Not sure whether they were right outside the Top 30 or not. |
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Post by mkarns on Jul 11, 2013 11:15:41 GMT -5
It is an interesting read. My question for people who listened to, or were in the loop, back in the 70's: Was it assumed or said that "Billboard" used just sales to calculate their charts. And if that is so, why would Casey go out of his way on the 11/10/79 show to, even if it was inadvertent, bring in the talk about airplay being a component as well? Things seemed so out of line between BB and R and R during that time, and maybe that is because one was using sales and the other airplay. For example I joked about "Pop Musik" being the reason Casey gave the 11/10/79 disclaimer. But just using that song you can see the difference between the two: on R and R, "Pop Musik" peaked at number 3...on 10/6/79, four weeks before it would peak at 1 on BB. On the week "Musik" was 1 on BB, it was down to 23 on R and R...pretty big discrepancy no matter how they calculated the numbers. There were a few instances where songs #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 had already peaked AND fallen off the week they were #1 on BB. Two that I can recall are "Jessie's Girl" by Rick Springfield and "Who Can It Be Now" by Men At Work. Not sure whether they were right outside the Top 30 or not. If AT40 had used R&R in 1981 (actually it would have been AT30, of course), then "Jessie's Girl" would have been at #16 on 7/25/81 and off the next week when it hit #1 in Billboard, remaining in the top 40 until October. The song only peaked at #8 in R&R, so something was off on one or the other side of the sales/airplay or BB/R&R ledger. I can't help but wonder if R&R shortchanged it somehow, though maybe they should be given the benefit of the doubt given all the questionableness of Billboard's rankings. "Who Can It Be Now" would have been #13 in an R&R countdown for 10/23/82; I think it would still have been in the top 40 the following week when it hit #1 in Billboard. Incidentally, on 10/30/82 R&R's #1 was "Gypsy" by Fleetwood Mac, which only got to #12 in BB. Part of that discrepancy can probably be explained by lower single sales because of most people buying the album, but not all of it. Again, something seems amiss. |
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Post by JMW on Jul 11, 2013 11:41:30 GMT -5
These five droppers from the 7/24/1982 show (airing next weekend) didn't fall as hard and fast as other songs did in 1982, but they did fall more than 20 notches. These two fell 23 notches: - Forget Me Nots (from 23 to 46)
- Heat Of The Moment (from 24 to 47)
And these three fell 21 notches: - Ebony And Ivory (27 to 48)
- Always On My Mind (28 to 49)
- Crimson And Clover (29 to 50)
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Post by Hervard on Jul 12, 2013 11:05:30 GMT -5
These five droppers from the 7/24/1982 show (airing next weekend) didn't fall as hard and fast... Let me guess - 7/25/81 is on tap for the weekend of July 27, right? |
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Post by pb on Jul 12, 2013 11:24:56 GMT -5
Neil Diamond's "Play Me" spent seven weeks on the top 40 in 1972, final two weeks at its peak position #11, then fell 30 notches.
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Post by JMW on Jul 12, 2013 14:34:23 GMT -5
These five droppers from the 7/24/1982 show (airing next weekend) didn't fall as hard and fast... Let me guess - 7/25/81 is on tap for the weekend of July 27, right? We haven't heard 1981 since the first week of April, so it's very possible. |
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Post by mkarns on Jul 12, 2013 14:41:00 GMT -5
Let me guess - 7/25/81 is on tap for the weekend of July 27, right? We haven't heard 1981 since the first week of April, so it's very possible. Seems logical, since it was indicated that July will feature four straight years, and that's all that's missing from 1980-83. Premiere has played 1982 and 1985 three times each since they last did 1981. It's been a while since they did 1987 as well; if that is aired in early August, it'll be roughly a three month gap. |
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Post by lasvegaskid on Jul 16, 2013 14:21:32 GMT -5
I'm really confused because last week's show from 1980, Casey clearly said the chart was made up of sales and airplay. |
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Post by jimmyg on Jul 16, 2013 14:51:23 GMT -5
I'm really confused because last week's show from 1980, Casey clearly said the chart was made up of sales and airplay. As far back as early 1970, the notation on the actual Hot 100 chart mentions that sales and airplay are used to rank the songs on the Hot 100. Mr. Hagerty sounds like he is well versed on the topic, but I would rely more on what Billboard states on the actual chart. |
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Post by michaelhagerty on Feb 5, 2016 17:56:26 GMT -5
I'm really confused because last week's show from 1980, Casey clearly said the chart was made up of sales and airplay. As far back as early 1970, the notation on the actual Hot 100 chart mentions that sales and airplay are used to rank the songs on the Hot 100. Mr. Hagerty sounds like he is well versed on the topic, but I would rely more on what Billboard states on the actual chart. Hi, guys! Hopefully 2 and a half years is not too late---but someone just told me they saw me mentioned here. First, thanks for the respect you've shown in disagreeing with and/or questioning elements of my post. If you look at the 1979 chart, you'll see the phrase "A reflection of national sales and programming activity by selected dealers, one stops and radio stations as compiled by the Charts Dept. of Billboard." Now look at a late 1981 chart and you'll see they've changed the wording: "Compiled by the Music Popularity Chart Dept. of Billboard from national retail store and one-stop sales reports, and radio airplay reports". That may seem like a distinction without a difference, but what actually happened there was that Billboard started treating airplay as a weighting factor in compiling the Hot 100, rather than as an incidental guide to what radio was doing. Despite earlier proclamations, they never really had done that. There were false starts (the most famous of which was 1973), but they were dropped quickly. The biggest objection to including airplay as a factor in an actual chart number was simple---you were lumping free plays in with sales. It would be like Chrysler counting every time you saw a Dodge Journey drive past you on the street as a sale. |
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Post by michaelhagerty on Feb 5, 2016 18:03:09 GMT -5
Just re-reading a bit, it's mentioned that singles sales started to drop off after 1974. This is also not true. Sales of 45s were very strong in the late '70s into the early '80s. Look at all the gold and platinum records there were at that time. Vinyl singles sales DID drop off in the later '80s. There could have been a year or two around the mid-70s when they dipped a bit, but it wasn't an overall trend at that point. Hi, Torcan. It is true. From 1968 through 1980, there were never fewer than 42 gold or platinum singles in a year, the peak was 70 in 1973. That was down to 11 in 1985. For overall singles sales, the peak was 1974, when 200 million 45s were sold. It was straight down after that, but a long way to fall...to 46.3 million in 1985, and 22.5 million in 1988. Album sales eclipsed 45 sales in 1969, but both grew until 1974, and albums continued to grow as singles began their decline from 1975 on. |
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Post by dukelightning on Feb 5, 2016 19:18:48 GMT -5
^Great to have your input. Your statement about 'lumping free plays' is a good example of why I have always thought airplay is not a good indicator of a song's popularity. So put me down as favoring the pre-1981 charts as being more accurate since they relied solely on sales based on what you have posted. And that is reflected in late 1974 with the big charts drops since a recession had begun by then. (Charts being based solely on sales will be effected by recessions and such).
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Post by djjoe1960 on Feb 5, 2016 19:55:01 GMT -5
Talking about the accuracy of the charts one of the most interesting charts comparisons is the week of March 23, 1974. # 1 on Cash Box is Rock On by David Essex while that same song is # 12 on Billboard after having peaked at #5 --2 weeks earlier. I know that Cash Box was a sales only chart until 1977 while Billboard was a combination of sales and airplay but WOW! By the way, Cher's Dark Lady was #1 at Billboard that week and that song peaked at #3 that same week on Cash Box.
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