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Post by woolebull on Feb 19, 2013 21:16:59 GMT -5
In Christopher Feldman's book, "The Billboard Book of No. 2 Singles", it is noted that Roxette's "Fading Like A Flower" hit number two on August 31, 1991, despite not hitting the top 10 on either the airplay or the sales charts.
That is absolutely stunning to me. Does anyone know how this logically happened? On R and R, it was in the top 10 for six weeks, peaking at 4. Were the Billboard charts that off as they were preparing to switch everything over?
Any revelation would be appreciated.
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Post by blackbowl68 on Feb 19, 2013 21:33:13 GMT -5
Although the Hot 100 didn't change its methodology of compiling the chart until November 1991, Billboard stopped printing the component sales & airplay charts they used before the change sometime around July in favor of the ones that would shape the new chart.
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Post by woolebull on Feb 19, 2013 21:39:55 GMT -5
That's funny. Feldman didn't mention that at all in the book. I find it funny that a song that made it to 4 on R and R could not hit the Top 10 on the new airplay chart for the Hot 100. That shows you right there the graphic difference in the charts. Roxette would have gone from having 6 Top 2 Hits to 5 Top 10 hits if the charts had started just a few months earlier.
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Post by seminolefan on Feb 19, 2013 21:55:20 GMT -5
It was also around this time that Paula Abdul's "The Promise Of a New Day" hit #1 without topping either the airplay or sales charts.
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Post by woolebull on Feb 19, 2013 23:26:10 GMT -5
It was also around this time that Paula Abdul's "The Promise Of a New Day" hit #1 without topping either the airplay or sales charts. I would love to know if they had practice charts from July until November 23, 1991...it would be interesting to see where certain songs would have ended up. |
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Post by mct1 on Feb 19, 2013 23:45:16 GMT -5
The period when the Hot 100 was not synched up with the Sales and Airplay charts lasted from 6/8/1991 to 11/23/1991. During that period, the Sales and Airplay charts were using the "new system" (monitored BDS/Soundscan data), while the Hot 100 was still compiled using the "old system" (airplay and sales lists reported by radio stations and record stores). On 11/30/1991, the Hot 100 switched over to the "new system" as well, and the three charts were linked once again.
The full history is a bit confusing. Billboard actually launched an airplay chart based on the "new system" in December 1990, called Top 40 Radio Monitor. Initially, this chart was compiled independently of -- and had no linkage whatsoever to -- the Hot 100. At the time, it was seen as a completely new chart, and did not displace the existing Hot 100 Airplay chart, which continued to be published. (As far as I know, there was originally no sales counterpart to the Top 40 Radio Monitor chart.)
On 6/8/1991, as I understand it, the existing Hot 100 Airplay chart was discontinued and Top 40 Radio Monitor became the "official" pop airplay chart; at the same time, the existing Sales chart switched to using the "new system". For a time after this, the airplay and sales charts had dissimilar names, but I believe they eventually reverted back to Hot 100 Airplay and Hot 100 Sales.
I remember buying a Whitburn Top 40 book years ago and being struck at how out of whack the sales, airplay and Hot 100 peaks were for songs in mid-to-late 1991. Before that time, a single's Hot 100 peak was usually in the same ballpark of the average of its sales and airplay peaks. Once the Hot 100 changed in November 1991, sales and airplay peaks could be widely divergent, but there was usually some rational relationship between those peaks and a song's Hot 100 peak. During the period when the charts were not linked to each other, by contrast, Hot 100 peaks sometimes just made no sense at all in relation to sales and airplay peaks. Some songs charted much higher on the Hot 100 than they did on either the sales or airplay charts.
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Post by woolebull on Feb 20, 2013 9:08:35 GMT -5
I remember buying a Whitburn Top 40 book years ago and being struck at how out of whack the sales, airplay and Hot 100 peaks were for songs in mid-to-late 1991. Before that time, a single's Hot 100 peak was usually in the same ballpark of the average of its sales and airplay peaks. Once the Hot 100 changed in November 1991, sales and airplay peaks could be widely divergent, but there was usually some rational relationship between those peaks and a song's Hot 100 peak. During the period when the charts were not linked to each other, by contrast, Hot 100 peaks sometimes just made no sense at all in relation to sales and airplay peaks. Some songs charted much higher on the Hot 100 than they did on either the sales or airplay charts. Here are some examples of what mct1 was talking about in that 1991 time frame: Roxette, "Fading Like A Flower": Number 2: Airplay 11, Sales 23 Paula Abdul, "Promise of a New Day": Number 1: Airplay 5, Sales 25 Bryan Adams, "Can't Stop This Thing We Started" Number 2: Sales 11, Airplay 14 R.E.M. "Shiny Happy People" Number 10: Airplay 25, Sales 38 Curtis Stigers "I Wonder Why" Number 9: Airplay 28, Sales 62 Karyn White "Romantic" Number 1: Airplay 2, Sales 26 Chesney Hawkes "The One And Only": Number 10: Airplay 28, Sales 53 Interesting stuff. All of these songs, by the way made R and R's Top 10. This time of showing the new charts while using the old charts gave people who were looking, to use a phrase heard on AT 40 around that time, a "sneak peak" into how different the charts would become 11/30/91. In regards to the three songs I listed on here that peaked in the bottom part of the Top 10 (REM, Stigers, Hawkes) those songs were played in heavy rotation on my CHR stations...definitely would rank higher than say 28 or so. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 10:35:38 GMT -5
I would imagine though I have no proof of this it has to do with how it was doing individually with those charts combined compared to others. For example if FLAF hit number 2 but sales were dominated by others but not generating the same airplay level or vice versa a song like that could probably sneak in pretty high. Plus, did the Hot 100 take into account other genres of music and not just CHR at that time? That could contribute as well. Like I said, I have no proof of this, just throwing it out there as a possible reason.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 10:37:53 GMT -5
FWIW, I hate the November 30, 1991 chart. I've brought this up before but they didn't even try and pretend there was any lineage between that new Hot 100 and the previous. If you look at the number listings for "last week" and "2 weeks ago" they were based in the new methodology, not the previous weeks Hot 100. Always have thought that was stupid.
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Post by woolebull on Feb 20, 2013 12:32:35 GMT -5
I would imagine though I have no proof of this it has to do with how it was doing individually with those charts combined compared to others. For example if FLAF hit number 2 but sales were dominated by others but not generating the same airplay level or vice versa a song like that could probably sneak in pretty high. Plus, did the Hot 100 take into account other genres of music and not just CHR at that time? That could contribute as well. Like I said, I have no proof of this, just throwing it out there as a possible reason. I'd like to go back and look at those charts. There were many songs that were taking up sales and not airplay, but I can't think of many songs off the top of my head. Songs like "OPP" were killer in sales but not as strong in airplay (#1 S, #24 A, #6 Hot 100) so there could be some sneaking for sure. It's interesting there were at least two number twos at the time that didn't hit the top 10 on either of the qualifiers, and two number ones that did not hit number one on either of the components. I will never forget picking up the Billboard 11/30/91 chart. I picked it up, turned to the Hot 100, looked at it in shock for about ten minutes, put it down, and said, "I'm done with Billboard". Now that I am looking at some Billboard airplay numbers and comparing them to R and R from that time, their methodology makes even less sense. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 12:59:04 GMT -5
I would imagine though I have no proof of this it has to do with how it was doing individually with those charts combined compared to others. For example if FLAF hit number 2 but sales were dominated by others but not generating the same airplay level or vice versa a song like that could probably sneak in pretty high. Plus, did the Hot 100 take into account other genres of music and not just CHR at that time? That could contribute as well. Like I said, I have no proof of this, just throwing it out there as a possible reason. I'd like to go back and look at those charts. There were many songs that were taking up sales and not airplay, but I can't think of many songs off the top of my head. Songs like "OPP" were killer in sales but not as strong in airplay (#1 S, #24 A, #6 Hot 100) so there could be some sneaking for sure. It's interesting there were at least two number twos at the time that didn't hit the top 10 on either of the qualifiers, and two number ones that did not hit number one on either of the components. I will never forget picking up the Billboard 11/30/91 chart. I picked it up, turned to the Hot 100, looked at it in shock for about ten minutes, put it down, and said, "I'm done with Billboard". Now that I am looking at some Billboard airplay numbers and comparing them to R and R from that time, their methodology makes even less sense. Up until I think 94, R&R weighed things evenly no matter the station. Billboard started the god awful trend of weighting stations by market and all when they switched to soundscan. Plus, starting in 11/30 it was 100% accurate as it was reading exact data and not what PDs and record stores submitted with a hand on the bible claiming it was the honest truth. At least this is what I think was the case. This eventually of course led to listener impressions tabulating which is an even bigger crock. A lot of people don't agree, but the best thing AT40 did when this happened was get away from the Hot 100. However, I think they should have dropped BB altogether. I am it saying go with R&R necessarily but why keep paying $10K a week for rights to use a chart that is only a component of what figured into the Hot 100 which you were paying that much for before? It wasn't like by that point the fact they used the Billboard name was helping them since affiliated were dropping like flies. |
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Post by jdelachjr2002 on Feb 20, 2013 18:41:22 GMT -5
I don't know if there's any way to look up how the Airplay charts looked like for free. With that said, here is what the Top 40 Airplay chart looked like on 6/1/1991 (corresponding Hot 100 positions in parentheses)
2W LW TW WK
04 04 01 04 Rush Rush - Paula Abdul (5)
01 01 02 13 Baby Baby - Amy Grant (15)
02 02 03 12 I Like The Way - Hi-Five (6)
06 05 04 07 I Wanna Sex You Up - Color Me Badd (3)
03 03 05 13 Touch Me (All Night Long) - Cathy Dennis (8)
09 06 06 08 I Don't Wanna Cry - Mariah Carey (1)
16 10 07 06 More Than Words - Extreme (2)
11 11 08 06 Love Is A Wonderful Thing - Michael Bolton (4)
05 07 09 19 Hold You Tight - Tara Kemp (60)
12 12 10 12 Here We Go - C+C Music Factory Featuring Freedom Williams and Zelma Davis (14)
08 08 11 12 Joyride - Roxette (21)
20 15 12 05 Losing My Religion - R.E.M. (7)
07 09 13 18 I've Been Thinking About You - Londonbeat (51)
15 15 14 10 Rhythm Of My Heart - Rod Stewart (10)
21 17 15 08 Strike It Up - Black Box (16)
10 13 16 10 I Touch Myself - The Divinyls (13)
19 19 17 20 Round And Round - Tevin Campbell (64)
26 22 18 05 Power Of Love/Love Power - Luther Vandross (17)
13 18 19 22 Someday - Mariah Carey (NR)
27 23 20 04 Gypsy Woman (She's Homeless) - Crystal Waters (37)
18 20 21 16 Together Forever - Lisette Melendez (87)
14 16 22 14 You're In Love - Wilson Phillips (53)
36 26 23 03 Unbelievable - EMF (12)
32 28 24 08 Do You Want Me - Salt N Pepa (26)
40 29 25 04 Here I Am (Come And Take Me) - UB40 (27)
29 27 26 07 What Comes Naturally - Sheena Easton (22)
17 21 27 11 Voices That Care - Voices That Care (33)
31 32 28 07 It's A Shame (My Sister) - Monie Love (46)
23 25 29 10 Cry For Help - Rick Astley (41)
34 33 30 06 Written All Over Your Face - The Rude Boys (18)
37 34 31 03 Couple Days Off - Huey Lewis & The News (20)
25 30 32 08 Save Some Love - Keedy (44)
33 35 33 13 Iesha - Another Bad Creation (62)
39 37 34 06 Crazy - Daisy Dee (84)
DEBUT 35 01 Piece Of My Heart - Tara Kemp (48)
28 31 36 07 More Than Ever - Nelson (36)
NR 36 37 02 Miracle - Whitney Houston (11)
NR 38 38 02 You Don't Have To Go Home Tonight - The Triplets (24)
NR 40 39 02 Silent Lucidity - Queensryche (9)
DEBUT 40 01 A Better Love - Londonbeat (45)
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Post by dukelightning on Feb 20, 2013 18:59:55 GMT -5
You can look up those charts for free. Go to Google books and type in "Billboard - October 12, 1991" for example and it will take you to that issue. You will have to scroll up or down to get the appropriate page. "I Ador Mi Amor" was at #1 for second week that week with "Emotions" moving from 7 to 2 on the Top 40 Radio Monitor chart.
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Post by Hervard on Feb 20, 2013 19:21:26 GMT -5
I remember buying a Whitburn Top 40 book years ago and being struck at how out of whack the sales, airplay and Hot 100 peaks were for songs in mid-to-late 1991. Before that time, a single's Hot 100 peak was usually in the same ballpark of the average of its sales and airplay peaks. Once the Hot 100 changed in November 1991, sales and airplay peaks could be widely divergent, but there was usually some rational relationship between those peaks and a song's Hot 100 peak. During the period when the charts were not linked to each other, by contrast, Hot 100 peaks sometimes just made no sense at all in relation to sales and airplay peaks. Some songs charted much higher on the Hot 100 than they did on either the sales or airplay charts. Here are some examples of what mct1 was talking about in that 1991 time frame: Roxette, "Fading Like A Flower": Number 2: Airplay 11, Sales 23 Paula Abdul, "Promise of a New Day": Number 1: Airplay 5, Sales 25 Bryan Adams, "Can't Stop This Thing We Started" Number 2: Sales 11, Airplay 14 R.E.M. "Shiny Happy People" Number 10: Airplay 25, Sales 38 Curtis Stigers "I Wonder Why" Number 9: Airplay 28, Sales 62 Karyn White "Romantic" Number 1: Airplay 2, Sales 26 Chesney Hawkes "The One And Only": Number 10: Airplay 28, Sales 53 Interesting stuff. All of these songs, by the way made R and R's Top 10. Not to nitpick, but "The One And Only" peaked at #12 on the R&R chart. Still, that is indeed a far cry from #28, lol! |
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Post by jdelachjr2002 on Feb 20, 2013 19:50:50 GMT -5
You can look up those charts for free. Go to Google books and type in "Billboard - October 12, 1991" for example and it will take you to that issue. You will have to scroll up or down to get the appropriate page. "I Ador Mi Amor" was at #1 for second week that week with "Emotions" moving from 7 to 2 on the Top 40 Radio Monitor chart. Yes but 10/12/1991 is the only date within June-November 1991 that you can read for free (other than the Top 10 on Billboard's web site and a few others). |
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