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Post by mkarns on Jan 5, 2009 12:37:50 GMT -5
The year end charts in the 1970s sometimes look odd, regardless of methodology. For 1974, for instance, Barry White's "Can't Get Enough of Your Love" doesn't appear anywhere despite hitting #1, while Mac Davis' "One Hell of a Woman" made the year end top 10 when it never reached that part of the weekly chart (it peaked at #11, though its chart run was very long for the time.) In 1975, Grand Funk's "Some Kind of Wonderful" is #6 for the year, but it only hit #3 and didn't seem to have an excessively long chart stay. There is probably an explanation for this, but it just looks strange.
It seems to me that songs that were hits in the late fall (esp. November/December) were often shortchanged in the 1970s to around 1980, while as pointed out by the late 80s things seemed biased in the other direction. The top three songs of 1989 were the same top three songs as on the last weekly chart of 1988 (though not all in the same positions), while seven of 1988's top 10 peaked no later than March of that year (six of them were on the last Top 40 chart of 1987.)
The last Billboard-based year end countdown I heard at the time was 1990, when Shadoe used AT40's own list instead of Billboard's. According to AT40, Sinead O'Connor's "Nothing Compares 2 U" was the top hit of the year while Wilson Phillips' "Hold On" was #1 according to Billboard (it was #5 on AT40). I actually preferred the AT40 version, as Sinead's hit was #1 for longer--4 weeks, longest of any song in the considered period. The Mariah Carey and Phil Collins hits that were #2 and #3 for the year in the aired countdown matched the 4-week run as well.
And going slightly off topic, in the mid-1990s Casey's Top 40 had several songs that made the year end top 100 for two different years. Same for AT40 today (Ryan Seacrest version); I guess Radio/Records and Mediabase go by a fairly strict points methodology without allowances for when a song peaked or a rule against recurrents.
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Post by briguy52748 on Jan 5, 2009 13:42:05 GMT -5
With all the talk about AT40 vs. Billboard on the Year-End chart, and "Why Me" by Kris Kristofferson ranking No. 2 for the year 1973 (or No. 6, depending on the source), I also should point out a peculiarity with another year-end chart from that year.
Don Williams' "Amanda" peaked at No. 33 on the Hot Country Singles chart in mid-1973 (the flip side, "Come Early Morning," reached No. 12 in the July-August timeframe). "Amanda" — the only title shown on the 1973 YE Hot Country Singles chart — was the No. 5 song of the year. My question was, was both "Amanda" and "Come Early Morning" counted together and then only "Amanda" listed? Because I don't think "Amanda" by itself had an overly long chart run.
I have not seen a cue sheet for American Country Countdown's 1973 year-end special (the first one, which was a two-part, top 100 country songs of the year), so I don't know if Don Bowman and company used the official Billboard chart, or if an original ACC chart was created; remember, this show aired four months before Bob Kingsley came on board.
Brian
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Post by jedijake on Jan 5, 2009 14:18:45 GMT -5
This was the case with a few songs on the R&R chart as well. "Look Away" by Chicago and "We Didn't Start The Fire" by Billy Joel never appeared on any year-end chart.
And there were more, but those just stuck out for me.
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Post by vince on Jan 6, 2009 1:29:44 GMT -5
For clarification, in the early 70s, a song got a total of 200 points for each week at #1, 100 points for the position and 100 bonus points. So for example “Killing Me Softy” had a total of 1848 points, 1348 from the inverse point system and 500 bonus points for its 5 weeks at #1. “My Love” by Wings had 1831 total points.
I think “Can’t Get Enough Of Your Love, Babe” not making the year end chart in 1974 was an error because with #1 bonus points it has 984 points and its entire chart run is in the 1974 survey period. “Mighty Love” which ranked at #100 has 902 points. There were some #1s in 1974 that did not get bonus points, but it was not consistent as some did. “One Hell Of A Woman” does actually have enough points to rank were it did.
“Some Kind Of Wonderful” ranking at #6, I believe is an error. It has no where near the points needed to rank in the 1975's year end top 10.
The shortchanging of songs in the 70s & 80s that peaked late in the year had to do with BB’s cut offs and that prior to 1985, BB only counted weeks in the survey period.
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Post by jedijake on Jan 6, 2009 6:24:19 GMT -5
Actually, in 1973, there weren't any bonus points yet. That's why "Why Me Lord" finished higher than "Killing Me Softly" and "My Love". Otherwise, "Why Me Lord" would not have been #2.
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Post by vince on Jan 7, 2009 1:39:47 GMT -5
Actually, in 1973, there weren't any bonus points yet. That's why "Why Me Lord" finished higher than "Killing Me Softly" and "My Love". Otherwise, "Why Me Lord" would not have been #2. From what I can tell both BB and AT40 did award bonus points to #1s in 1973. The first year BB awarded #1 bonus points was 1967, although they did not award them in 1969, but did from 1970 on. For 1973 using the inverse point formula and AT40's survey period, the top 20 has the following point totals without any bonus points: 1746 *1 TIE A YELLOW RIBBON 'ROUND THE OLD OAK TREE Tony Orlando And Dawn (#1, April) 2030 2 WHY ME Kris Kristofferson (#16, Nov) 1652 *3 BAD BAD LEROY BROWN Jim Croce (#1, July) 1348 *4 KILLING ME SOFTLY WITH HIS SONG Roberta Flack (#1, Feb) 1646 *5 LET'S GET IT ON Marvin Gaye (#1, Sept) 1431 *6 MY LOVE Paul McCartney & Wings (#1, June) 1416 *7 CROCODILE ROCK Elton John (#1, Feb) 1509 *8 WILL IT GO 'ROUND IN CIRCLES Billy Preston (#1, July) 1401 *9 YOU'RE SO VAIN Carly Simon (#1, Jan) 1588 *10 TOUCH ME IN THE MORNING Diana Ross (#1, Aug) 1333 *11 ME AND MRS. JONES Billy Paul (#1, Dec 72) 1426 *12 THE NIGHT THE LIGHTS WENT OUT IN GEORGIA Vicki Lawrence (#1, April) 1419 *13 HALF BREED Cher (#1, Oct) 1610 14 PLAYGROUND IN MY MIND Clint Holmes (#2, June) 1400 *15 BROTHER LOUIE The Stories (#1, Aug) 1474 *16 DELTA DAWN Helen Reddy (#1, Sept) 1328 *17 KEEP ON TRUCKIN' Eddie Kendricks (#1, Nov) 1471 18 THAT LADY The Isley Brothers (#6, Oct) 1369 *19 FRANKENSTEIN Edgar Winter Group (#1, May) 1463 20 DRIFT AWAY Dobie Gray (#5, May) When 100 bonus points are given for each week at #1, the point totals match up with AT40's ranking. 2146 *1 TIE A YELLOW RIBBON 'ROUND THE OLD OAK TREE Tony Orlando And Dawn (#1, April) 2030 2 WHY ME Kris Kristofferson (#16, Nov) 1852 *3 BAD BAD LEROY BROWN Jim Croce (#1, July) 1848 *4 KILLING ME SOFTLY WITH HIS SONG Roberta Flack (#1, Feb) 1846 *5 LET'S GET IT ON Marvin Gaye (#1, Sept) 1831 *6 MY LOVE Paul McCartney & Wings (#1, June) 1716 *7 CROCODILE ROCK Elton John (#1, Feb) 1709 *8 WILL IT GO 'ROUND IN CIRCLES Billy Preston (#1, July) 1701 *9 YOU'RE SO VAIN Carly Simon (#1, Jan) 1688 *10 TOUCH ME IN THE MORNING Diana Ross (#1, Aug) 1633 *11 ME AND MRS. JONES Billy Paul (#1, Dec 72) 1626 *12 THE NIGHT THE LIGHTS WENT OUT IN GEORGIA Vicki Lawrence (#1, April) 1619 *13 HALF BREED Cher (#1, Oct) 1610 14 PLAYGROUND IN MY MIND Clint Holmes (#2, June) 1600 *15 BROTHER LOUIE The Stories (#1, Aug) 1574 *16 DELTA DAWN Helen Reddy (#1, Sept) 1528 *17 KEEP ON TRUCKIN' Eddie Kendricks (#1, Nov) 1471 18 THAT LADY The Isley Brothers (#6, Oct) 1469 *19 FRANKENSTEIN Edgar Winter Group (#1, May) 1463 20 DRIFT AWAY Dobie Gray (#5, May) If no bonus points been awarded, “Why Me” would have been the #1 song of 1973. The #1 bonus points were increased in 1976 and that system was used by BB most years until 1984 when they started awarding top 10 bonus point.
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Post by jdelachjr2002 on Jan 7, 2009 11:06:14 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, does anybody know the methodology for the year-end charts on "Casey's Top 40" 1989-1997 or "American Top 40" 1998-2003?
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Post by freakyflybry on Jan 7, 2009 11:31:35 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, does anybody know the methodology for the year-end charts on "Casey's Top 40" 1989-1997 or "American Top 40" 1998-2003? I think for 1989-94, it was determined by inverse points in the top 40 (40 points for #1, 39 points for #2, all the way down to 1 point for #40), with 10 bonus points for each week at #1. I don't know how the ties were broken though. 1995-2003 was done by counting the spins for each song during the survey period.
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Post by Hervard on Jan 7, 2009 11:41:53 GMT -5
This was the case with a few songs on the R&R chart as well. "Look Away" by Chicago and "We Didn't Start The Fire" by Billy Joel never appeared on any year-end chart. And there were more, but those just stuck out for me. Actually, had R&R's charts been full Top 100s (until 2000, the number of songs coincided with the year (i.e. Top 88 of 1988), "Look Away" would, in fact, have charted in both 1988 and 1989, both somewhere in the 90s. As for "Some Kind Of Wonderful", I think it was established in another thread (don't remember which one) that its ranking at #6 was an error.
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Post by Hervard on Jan 7, 2009 11:51:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Vince. If I'm reading this right, they gave no bonus points for weeks in the top 10. That would explain why songs like This Is It, Jesse and Better Love Next Time ranked higher than many top 10 and some top 5 hits. That, plus the fact that those songs had unusually long chart runs, especially "This Is It". That song was in the Top 40 for sixteen weeks, a very unusually long period of time for a song that didn't hit the Top Ten. Heck, there were several #1 songs from 1980 that didn't even spend that long on the entire Hot 100!
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joman
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by joman on Jan 17, 2009 11:59:23 GMT -5
Hey Vince, I wonder if you have songs 41-100 for the year 1973 based on the AT40 rankings. Thanks!
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Post by cpastrick on Jan 17, 2009 15:44:04 GMT -5
I used to follow the charts religiously. And I have to say, for years, I was in favor of using Billboard's rankings. But the points made here are very valid. Songs that spent a good deal of time below 40 skewed their Top 40 status.
I was always one of those who would follow along each week, calculating the running total points for each song. However, I was never 100% accurate. Does anyone know why Billboard never published the songs' point totals? Or if there might be someplace where I could find the actual point totals for each year? (or at least the ’80s).
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Post by vince on Jan 18, 2009 19:43:34 GMT -5
Hey Vince, I wonder if you have songs 41-100 for the year 1973 based on the AT40 rankings. Thanks! AT40 only did a top 40 for 1973, so there is no official AT40 ranking of positions 41 through 100. It would be interesting to see what positions 41 - 100 might have been. I will to figure out and post it when I finish.
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Post by vince on Jan 18, 2009 20:08:48 GMT -5
I used to follow the charts religiously. And I have to say, for years, I was in favor of using Billboard's rankings. But the points made here are very valid. Songs that spent a good deal of time below 40 skewed their Top 40 status. I was always one of those who would follow along each week, calculating the running total points for each song. However, I was never 100% accurate. Does anyone know why Billboard never published the songs' point totals? Or if there might be someplace where I could find the actual point totals for each year? (or at least the ’80s). A far as I know BB's point totals for the year end charts have never been published or released. I can’t say why for sure, but I think BB never published them either because they didn’t think their reader were interested or because most years have some mistakes. Possibly, there are some subjective factors that come into play and the ranking are not based solely on a mathematical formula. Trying to figure out how BB did the rankings, I was only able to get a 100% point match for 1971, 1976, 1979, & AT40’s top 40 of 1973. There are several other years where I came very close with only a couple of songs having mismatched point totals. From 1987 to 1991, BB used a complex inverse point system that is very hard to get exact, but I was able to get a good approximation.
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Post by vince on Jan 21, 2009 1:32:04 GMT -5
This is what AT40's The top 100 of 1973 may have been if they did a Top 100 that year. The Top 40 is AT40s actual Top 40 of 1973.
2146 *1 TIE A YELLOW RIBBON 'ROUND THE OLD OAK TREE Tony Orlando And Dawn (#1, April) 2030 2 WHY ME Kris Kristofferson (#16, Nov) 1852 *3 BAD BAD LEROY BROWN Jim Croce (#1, July) 1848 *4 KILLING ME SOFTLY WITH HIS SONG Roberta Flack (#1, Feb) 1846 *5 LET'S GET IT ON Marvin Gaye (#1, Sept) 1831 *6 MY LOVE Paul McCartney & Wings (#1, June) 1716 *7 CROCODILE ROCK Elton John (#1, Feb) 1709 *8 WILL IT GO 'ROUND IN CIRCLES Billy Preston (#1, July) 1701 *9 YOU'RE SO VAIN Carly Simon (#1, Jan) 1688 *10 TOUCH ME IN THE MORNING Diana Ross (#1, Aug) 1633 *11 ME AND MRS. JONES Billy Paul (#1, Dec 72) 1626 *12 THE NIGHT THE LIGHTS WENT OUT IN GEORGIA Vicki Lawrence (#1, April) 1619 *13 HALF BREED Cher (#1, Oct) 1610 14 PLAYGROUND IN MY MIND Clint Holmes (#2, June) 1600 *15 BROTHER LOUIE The Stories (#1, Aug) 1574 *16 DELTA DAWN Helen Reddy (#1, Sept) 1528 *17 KEEP ON TRUCKIN' Eddie Kendricks (#1, Nov) 1471 18 THAT LADY The Isley Brothers (#6, Oct) 1469 *19 FRANKENSTEIN Edgar Winter Group (#1, May) 1463 20 DRIFT AWAY Dobie Gray (#5, May) 1462 *21 MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA Gladys Knight And The Pips (#1, Oct) 1452 22 LITTLE WILLY Sweet (#3, May) 1425 *23 YOU ARE THE SUNSHINE OF MY LIFE Stevie Wonder (#1, May) 1412 24 PILLOW TALK Sylvia (#3, June) 1390 *25 WE'RE AN AMERICAN BAND Grand Funk Railroad (#1, Sept) 1388 26 RIGHT PLACE, WRONG TIME Doctor John (#9, June) 1377 27 ROCKIN' PNEUMONIA Johnny Rivers (#6, Jan) 1373 28 FUNNY FACE Donna Fargo (#5, Jan) 1348 *29 SUPERSTITION Stevie Wonder (#1, Jan) 1330 30 WILDFLOWER Skylark (#9, May) 1320 31 DANCING IN THE MOONLIGHT King Harvest (#13, Feb) 1316 32 LOVES ME LIKE A ROCK Paul Simon (#2, Oct) 1302 *33 THE MORNING AFTER Maureen McGovern (#1, Aug) 1296 34 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HIGH John Denver (#9, March) 1284 35 CLAIR Gilbert O'Sullivan (#2, Dec 1972) 1275 36 STUCK IN THE MIDDLE WITH YOU Steeler's Wheel (#6, May) 1267 37 SHAMBALA Three Dog Night (#3, July) 1264 *38 ANGIE The Rolling Stones (#1, Oct) 1264 *39 LOVE TRAIN The O'Jays (#1, March) 1256 40 I'M GONNA LOVE YOU JUST A LITTLE MORE BABY Barry White (#3, June) 1253 41 SAY, HAS ANYBODY SEEN MY SWEET GYPSY ROSE Tony Orlando And Dawn (#3, Sept) 1239 42 DANNY'S SONG Anne Murray (#7, April) 1232 43 THE MONSTER MASH Bobby Boris Pickett (#10, Aug) 1230 44 NATURAL HIGH Bloodstone (#10, July) 1229 45 DIAMOND GIRL Seals & Crofts (#6, July) 1225 46 LONG TRAIN RUNNIN' The Doobie Brothers (#8, June) 1222 *47 GIVE ME LOVE George Harrison (#1, June) 1222 48 RAMBLIN' MAN The Allman Brothers (#2, Oct) 1219 49 IT NEVER RAINS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA Albert Hammond (#5, Dec 1972) 1216 50 IF YOU WANT ME TO STAY Sly And The Family Stone (#12, Sept) 1213 51 DADDY'S HOME Jermaine Jackson (#9, March) 1211 52 LAST SONG Edward Bear (#3, March) 1205 53 NEITHER ONE OF US (Wants To Be The First To Say Goodbye) Gladys Knight And The Pipps (#2, April) 1202 54 I'M DOIN' FINE NOW New York City (#17, June) 1201 55 YOUR MAMA DON'T DANCE (And Your Daddy Don't Rock And Roll) Loggins And Mesina (#4, Jan) 1184 56 DANIEL Elton John (#2, June) 1180 57 SMOKE ON THE WATER Deep Purple (#4, July) 1172 58 COVER OF THE ROLLING STONE Doctor Hook And The Medicine Show (#6, March) 1165 59 COULD IT BE I'M FALLIN' IN LOVE The Spinners (#4, March) 1157 60 BEHIND CLOSED DOORS Charlie Rich (#15, July) 1155 61 FEELIN' STRONGER EVERY DAY Chicago (#10, Aug) 1150 62 YOU OUGHTA BE WITH ME Al Green (#3, Dec 1972) 1143 63 CISCO KID War (#2, April) 1141 64 LIVE AND LET DIE Paul McCartney And Wings (#2, Aug) 1138 65 OH BABE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY Hurricane Smith (#3, Feb) 1132 66 I BELIEVE IN YOU Johnny Taylor (#11, Aug) 1129 67 SUPERFLY Curtis Mayfield (#8, Jan) MY MARIA B. W. Stevenson (#9, Sept) 1120 68 SING The Carpenters (#3, April) 1120 69 AIN'T NO WOMAN (Like The One I've Got) The Four Tops (#4, April) 1119 70 DUELLING BANJOS Eric Weisberg and Steve Mandell (#2, Feb) 1116 71 HIGHER GROUND Stevie Wonder (#4, Oct) 1114 72 HERE I AM Al Green (#10, Sept) 1111 73 MY MARIA B. W. Stevenson (#9, Sept) 1108 74 GET DOWN Gilbert O'Sullivan (#7, Aug) 1103 75 HOCUS POCUS Focus (#9, June) 1096 76 REELIN' IN THE YEARS Steeley Dan (#11, May) 1091 77 YESTERDAY ONCE MORE The Carpenters (#2, July) 1087 78 BOOGIE WOOGIE BUGLE BOY Bette Midler (#8, July) 1084 79 DO IT AGAIN Steeley Dan (#6, Feb) 1083 80 YES WE CAN CAN The Pointer Sisters (#11, Oct) 1080 81 HEARTBEAT - ITS A LOVEBEAT The DeFranco Family (#3, Nov) 1076 82 KODACHROME Paul Simon (#2, July) 1075 83 WHY CAN'T WE LIVE TOGETHER Timmy Thomas (#3, Feb) 1047 84 DO YOU WANNA DANCE Bette Midler (#17, March) 1043 85 SO VERY HARD TO GO Tower Of Power (#17, July) 1034 86 MASTERPIECE The Temptations (#7, April) 1033 87 PEACEFUL Helen Reddy (#12, May) 1032 88 ONE OF A KIND LOVE AFFAIR The Spinners (#11, June) 1029 89 KNOCKING ON HEAVEN'S DOOR Bob Dylan (#12, Oct) 1018 90 FUNKY WORM Ohio Players (#15, May) 1009 91 JUMBALAYA The Blue Ridge Rangers (#16, Feb) 1003 92 PAPER ROSES Marie Osmond (#5, Nov) 987 93 BREAK UP TO MAKE UP The Stylistics (#5, April) 985 *94 TOP OF THE WORLD Carpenters (#1, Dec) 983 95 DAISY A DAY Judd Strunk (#14, May) 977 96 ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA (2001) Deodato (#2, March) 976 97 THE WORLD IS A GHETTO War (#7, Feb) 973 98 STIR IT UP Johnny Nash (#12, April) 970 99 MONEY Pink Floyd (#13, July) 969 100 GYPSY MAN War (#8, Sept)
Positions 41 - 100, I ranked based on AT40's ranking formula used to calculate their top 40. Records bulleted on or after 12/16/72 received credit for their entire chart run through 12/8/73. Credit was not given for anything after 12/8/73.
In case anyone is wondering about missing #1s, "Photograph" did not have enough points to make the top 100. "I Am Woman" and "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" had lost their bullet and were descending on 12/16/72, thus they were not eligible. "Woman" and "Papa" would have ranked in the top 40 if they were included.
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